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Fingers
Jam Meister
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 83
Location: Spain
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 Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: Using Jamstix in a 'live' situation |
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While sitting here with my mind wandering around a forthcoming live music thing I've got involved with (one with minimal musicians, it would seem) I got to wandering about the possible use of JS as an alternative to a real drummer?
There's no midi involved, so the first question has to be how to clock the thing. I wondered if it would be possible to 'drive' JS with a bog-standard drum machine, with JS adding its little enhancements. I don't even own a drum machine, so I can't try this for myself - but I'd seriously consider buying one if the answer is positive.
A broader question might be, does anyone here use JS in live performance, how do they rig it, what sort of results do they get and what drawbacks they have encountered?
I strongly suspect I'm chasing a red herring here, but it would be nice to know if anyone has done this - if only to stop me from re-inventing the wheel  .
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Graeme
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Using Jamstix in a 'live' situation |
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| Fingers wrote: |
There's no midi involved, so the first question has to be how to clock the thing.
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Best way for live performances is to run Jamstix in SAVIHost (or other simple hosts) on a laptop.
The LiveLoops are the key to live performances. There's a tutorial by Greg Holmes in the manual.
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Ralph Zeuner
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Fingers
Jam Meister
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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OK - I think I need to spend a bit of time looking at this  . It's not something which has cropped up before, so I'm floundering a bit.
However, having managed to get JS working quite nicely for recording, I thought it might be interesting to see if would work in a live situation. I think my major concern was trying to keep things really simple and not letting JS go off on a bit of a wild fling. This can happen, but it's not a problem when you can stop recording and start over - obviously, you couldn't do that live.
I think that was the basis of my thinking to use the (admittedly boring) output from a drum machine - this would pretty much hold JS down to a 'non-wild' level of playing but still allow it to sound somewhat more real.
A weekend of reading and experimentation is ahead of me......
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Graeme
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GregHolmes
Jam Meister
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 70
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I may be able to offer some tips, so feel free to ask. I'll be away from the computer, though, so give me a bit of time... 
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Fingers
Jam Meister
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| GregHolmes wrote: | | I may be able to offer some tips, so feel free to ask. I'll be away from the computer, though, so give me a bit of time... |
I'd be very interested in anything you could come up with .
Just so you know what I'm dealing with here, the proposed lineup is keyboard and guitar, plus vocalist. The guitarist will occasionally use a Ztar (mainly for bass, but generally that will be LH bass from the keys). Although the keyboard (Roland VA-5) has drums and stuff, we really don't want to use them - like most of these things, they're a little 'wooden'.
What I - sort of - had in mind was some means of clocking JS at the tempo being played and using the dynamics from one/both of the instruments to control it - much as one would in a recording situation. Hopefully, this is a long-term project and I'm quite happy to devote some time and equipment to experiment with it. Start off with something simple (that works!) and expand as I get more used to controlling it.
Unfortunately, I'm not feeling to0 well myself at the moment (I have a wandering kidney stone, which can hurt like hell and doesn't encourage one to be creative/inventive). As soon as I feel bit better, I'll get to grips with Ralph's suggestions - and read your tutorial!!
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Graeme
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Fingers
Jam Meister
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| GregHolmes wrote: | | I may be able to offer some tips, so feel free to ask. I'll be away from the computer, though, so give me a bit of time... |
I'd be very interested in anything you could come up with .
Just so you know what I'm dealing with here, the proposed lineup is keyboard and guitar, plus vocalist. The guitarist will occasionally use a Ztar (mainly for bass, but generally that will be LH bass from the keys). Although the keyboard (Roland VA-5) has drums and stuff, we really don't want to use them - like most of these things, they're a little 'wooden'.
What I - sort of - had in mind was some means of clocking JS at the tempo being played and using the dynamics from one/both of the instruments to control it - much as one would in a recording situation. Hopefully, this is a long-term project and I'm quite happy to devote some time and equipment to experiment with it. Start off with something simple (that works!) and expand as I get more used to controlling it.
Unfortunately, I'm not feeling too well myself at the moment (I have a wandering kidney stone, which can hurt like hell and doesn't encourage one to be creative/inventive). As soon as I feel bit better, I'll get to grips with Ralph's suggestions - and read your tutorial!!
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Graeme
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GregHolmes
Jam Meister
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I have a similar lineup to you - except that it's Chapman Stick and vocals, with occasional keyboards (all played by me - it's a really tight band, but some times the arguments get a bit ugly  ).
To control the JS tempo, you may be able to use your VA-5. I assume it has a tempo control knob for the drums. If not, consider a tap-on tempo pedal like this (I have not used one of these):
http://www.ploytec.com/34one/
For dynamics, you can send a feed from the keyboard (via MIDI) or the guitar (via audio), and choose between them on a song-by-song basis.
I'm fond of the simplicity of the technique that I describe at the end of the tutorial: "There's another way to make Jamstix appear to switch rhythms during a jam...etc" Try it out.
I was away from the computer because of gigging, not health reasons (but, of course, you know that it's GOOD to get away from the computer once in a while). Anyway, good luck with the stone!
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Fingers
Jam Meister
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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Location: Spain
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| GregHolmes wrote: | | I have a similar lineup to you - except that it's Chapman Stick and vocals, with occasional keyboards (all played by me - it's a really tight band, but some times the arguments get a bit ugly ). |
Hahahaha.....
I'm not that familiar with the VA-5 - it's not my instrument (I'm the guitarist in this outfit). However, I know the owner has the manual, so I think a thorough read of that might be a good starting point. If I can use the VA-5 to control the tempo, I reckon that's half the battle.
I had a look at the 34one thing - but it's out of stock at the moment. I'll see what else I can come up with, while I wait for the new model to appear.
| GregHolmes wrote: | | For dynamics, you can send a feed from the keyboard (via MIDI) or the guitar (via audio), and choose between them on a song-by-song basis. |
That was the approach I was originally working on, but I'm now thinking it might possibly be better if I used a pedal to simply control the velocity slider in JS. That way, I can always manually back it off if need be.
| GregHolmes wrote: | | I'm fond of the simplicity of the technique that I describe at the end of the tutorial: "There's another way to make Jamstix appear to switch rhythms during a jam...etc" Try it out. |
Yes - I will be giving all this stuff a proper read (rather than the cursory glance, which is all it's had up to now) and see what might be of use to me. Of course, it really wasn't something I had even considered doing before this project came along, so I'm really starting from zero. I'm not even used to working with midi/back tracks, or whatever, in a live situation - there's always been enough musicians to fill the gaps.
| GregHolmes wrote: | | I was away from the computer because of gigging, not health reasons (but, of course, you know that it's GOOD to get away from the computer once in a while). Anyway, good luck with the stone! |
The stone is a bi*ch - I can go for days (or even weeks) with no problem and then find myself crawling around the floor in agony within 15 minutes. Believe me, when that happens, it certainly keeps me away from the computer (and everything else!) and I can't concentrate on the simplest of tasks.
I've spent more time in the local hospital, over the last six months, than in all my 60 plus years. Of course, there's little they can actually do about it, until the 'sand' agglomerates and makes something big enough for them to grab hold of. In the meantime, I don't stray too far from home - just in case. Doing gigs is a form of russian roulette at the moment.
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Graeme
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