Rayzoon Technologies LLC

paspallum · Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: Ralph will solve this

Ralph
I was going to call this post 'fundamental flaw' but I know you'll solve this so there's no reason to sound the least bit negative...

The new control/paste and new paste panel are excellant. Great work!

I need you to work some similar magic with another issue.
I actually asked about this and wrote a lenghty post months ago before I even purchased Jamstix... when I still had the 1.32 demo... because of my post (I think) the 'lock' function was added so that a rythym would 'cycle' in the rythym tab....

Anyway it is still not right in my opinion. In fact it is VERY awkward.

I think it is best if I expalin the 'flaw' and how it distracts my workflow and then describe how it should work:

If anyone would want to go to the Rythym tab it should (in my way of thinking) be for one reason and one reason only... that is to alter or write a pattern (or a rythym)... so whenever you click on the Rythym TAB or click on the name of a rythym in the arrange window... you want to work on that ONE pattern.... just that ONE pattern..... right??

The way that Jamstix now keeps playing through the whole arrangement when you have selected the Rythym TAB is just... well... pointless??

Maybe some people want it that way? Maybe there is a reason? So please don't think me ignorant... but I just can't see a reason for it to work this way?

OK, I know I can use the 'lock' icon to 'cycle' a pattern... but why should I have to turn on the lock icon when I have already clicked that pattern from the list on the arrange page... specifically because I wanted to edit the pattern.... of course I would want it already 'cycling'? wouldn't I? Or at least 'selected' and ready to cycle.

Plus, currently it now it has an irritating feature where the pattern only cycles the exact pattern you click with the lock icon, as the arrangement passes over that bar (pattern/rythym) making it awkward to actually get the right pattern you want to cycle every time

Alternatively from hitting a pattern in the arrange TAB list...When you hit the Rythm Tab the Arrangement should immediately stop playing and jamstix should cycle whatever pattern that was playing when you hit the R-TAB...

which brings me to my next point.. when I go back to the arrange page... presumeably (definately) I am doing this because I have finished editing my Pattern in the Rythym Tab.. so the cycle (lock) should automatically turn off.... for two reasons...(1) because it gets confusing if you forget to turn it off... you can't stop jamstix with the host's stop button... and (2) because you have finished editing that one pattern and want to get back on with the arrangement. so you really want it to be off.... by making that decision to go to the Arrange TAB you are STATING that you want Cycle to be OFF... what is the use of a computer program if we have to do ALL the work???

So Jamstiix should cycle any rythym (or pattern) you have open in the Rythym TAB ...that would be EXCELLANT and the best and most simple solution.

If there are people out there that like it as it is (please post a reply and tell me why.... I might learn something!) then maybe as I suggested months ago, there could be an 'option' to have it operating as a default in either the way it is now or in the way I'm suggesting.

Another point is if you want to keep the lock icon... (as far as I'm concerned it could be 'trashed') it is far too low down on the interface... it should be up by the TABs for each window so the mouse doesn't have to move so far... and instead of being a 'lock' icon... it should be a 'play' button.... not a lock button (and it should still stop when you go to the arrange TAB!!)

Ralph, I hope I don't sound 'bossy' or like a 'know-it-all'... you are amazing and my hero! But this one needs sortiing out really badly!

I don't mean to patronize... I only write it like I'm talking to a moron because I'm worried that I'm not doing a good enough job of explaining the problem...

But here are the basic points again... here's waht I think it should do (and I will not stop pestering you until this issue gets sorted!)

1. When you are in the Rythym TAB it should cycle whatever rythym pattern you see in front of you (as it does now)

2. if you select a pattern from the list on the arrange window it will automatically cycle that pattern.

3. When you hit the Rythm Tab it should automatically cycle whatever pattern that is currently playing.

4. when you hit the Arrange TAB the cycle of that pattern will automatically stop and you are back playing the arrangement!

Simple... no need to hit that lock icon twice every time you want to go from the Arrange TAB to the rythym TAB

Yeah!!

Paspallum

RichLum · Jamologist Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 142 Location: Sydney

Paspallum's workflow sounds similar to mine and yes the changes he has suggested would make life al ot easier for me.

When I'm in the rhythm tab it is only to edit that rhythm, or load a different one as the one I selected wasn't right.

One frustration I have is sometimes when you load a different rhythm in the rhythm tab it loads it into the worng slot in the arranger as it seems that JS has kept moving along and the new rhtyhm seems to get put into whatever slot is selcted at that particular point in time when you choose the rhythm.

Rich

JohnR · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:29 am Post subject:

I too would agree with Paspallum's workflow except I would like a switch to turn on this behaviour.

Sometimes I want to watch the rhythm tab as the song is playing to see what is going on. But when creating a new rhythm I need it to stay on the one rhythm whilst I loop, say, 8 bars of the song to get a feel for the drums over the part of song that I want them on.

John

darcyb62 · Jamologist Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 188

I think this would be a useful feature but like JohnR, I would like this to be an option that could be turned on.

The way I currently do this, is to set up a 1 bar loop in Tracktion (or 2 depending on many bars I want the pattern to play) and I let it run. I then go to the rythm editor and hack away. Even if this feature were available I would probably still use this approach as I can hear the whole arrangement while tuning the drums, which to me anyways is more beneficial.
_________________
darcyb62

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

GregHolmes · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject:

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

New beta X8-4 implement this.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

paspallum · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: part you didn't get

Ralph
The part you didn't understand.... I'll have another go.

There is some real mis-understanding here.

Ralph, you said "Not sure I understand but you can stop the host or JS, double-click on the desired bar in the arranger which opens the rhythm tab and then cycle it. "

I've just gone in to my studio... tested out what you say... and I have the very lastest Beta version... this is how it is for me:

In the arrange TAB when I click on a pattern from the list, say 'Rythym 4' with the host stopped. it goes to the Rythym TAB... and 'Rythym 4' is in the nane box... as soon as I hit the lock icon it starts cycling the first Rythym on the list 'Rythym 1'.... so that is not right...try it...

This is real and not imagined and a big part of what I was saying yesterday.

I can see why someone (like yourself) might want to watch the entire arrangement of a song in the Rythym TAB... but a button (call it the 'veiw arrangement' button could be implemented in the Rythym TAB for the purpose of veiwing the entrie arrangement if anyone wished to do so)

I still stand firm that when you are in the arrange TAB and click a pattern it should instantly and automatically cycle that pattern in the Rythym TAB.

Plus... the lock icon neeeds to go and a 'play/stop' button can be added in case you do ever want to stop the pattern from inside the rythym TAB or restart it again.

And of course as you agree.... leaving the Rythym Tab will instantly stop the cycling.

I think enough jammers agreed with what I said to give this serious thought.

To me Ralph it is not EVEN working how you say it should... even if I stop Jamstix with the host... and click on a pattern in the arrange list... then go to the R-TAB and turn on the lock icon... it doesn't cycle the pattern I selected...

BUT I really want that feature of it going straight to the pattern I pick and cycling automatically...

when you are doing this (my workflow) you are working, writing, creating... you neeexd this efficiency... if you are just lying back to watch the entire arrangement go past in the Rythym TAB... well you have done a lot of work already... written you patterns, arranged them.. you only need to hit that 'View Arrangement' button (that I suggested) once!

When you are working up a song and writing beats it is fatigue-ing to consatntly be clicking and un-clikcing the 'lock' icon.

OK... so I've just had a hot bath... and thats where I think best.

Here's a compromise....

When you are in the arrange page and click the TAB for the rythym page... evrything stays as it is... it keeps playing the 'arrangement' for all of us out there who find that feature useful...

BUT... (as I've said 30 times now) when you click on a pattern in the arrange list... you go staright to the Rythym TAB to THAT very pattern you clicked on... and it is cycling

When you go and click the arrange TAB... you're back to the arrangement and the cycling to the 'selceted' pattern automatically stops!

This is a compromise for me as i would still like a on/off button in the Rythym TAB in case I want to stop the pattern palying to talk to a colleague of answer the phone... but I could compromise here and just hit the 'arrange TAB' and then hit 'stop' on my hosts transport button.

Paspallum

Paspallum

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Yes, I see the problem with the jump to rhythm 1 on the first cycle and I can also see the problem with the new auto-cycle not working when using dbl-click to switch to the R tab. Let me work on it...
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

paspallum · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject: How do you even understand?

Ralph
How do you even understand me?
I find it hard to expalin such technical stuff in writing... and when I read back what I've written... it sounds like gibberish?

Paspallum

paspallum · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject: not good

Ralph
obviously from reading your last post you are already onto this problem.

I just installed beta X8-4 and it really has a few problems.
Can you try and implement my idea of the 'auto cycle on and off' when you enter and exit the Rythm tab? (PLeeeeease!)

Also what is that about double clicking a rythym? I don't understand that.

AND... what does the 'music' notation icon above the 'lock' icon actually do? It says it mutes the pattern? I can't seem to make it function in any usefull way.... how would I go about using this item??

Paspallum

darcyb62 · Jamologist Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 188

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Paspallum, X8-5 is out, please do this:

- Go to rhythm tab and lock it
- Go to arranger and select other rhythms by double-clicking on the bar (not the rhythm name!)

The auto-lock feature will work as desired, locking and unlocking as you go to or from the rhythm tab.

Clicking on rhythm names in the arranger cannot currently auto-lock as the arrangement has to be at the same rhythm.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

paspallum · Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: Thanks

Ralph
You are a winner!
Thanks for that 'fix' and the explanation of how to use it.
I couldn't get it happening as I was double-clicking on the pattern 'name' on the list (as I guess you knew??) Clicking on the pattern 'button' works extremely well...

And now it is working in a way that I can use it without getting frustrated.

I notice though that this function only works when you have stopped the host sequencers play button?? When I am in the arrange window and I double click a 'pattern-button' while Cubase is in play mode... it doesn't always work... it opens (and cycles) the pattern that is being played at the time by the arrangement??

That is fine though... it's easy enough to hit stop before getting 'automatically' 'shuttled' to the Rythym TAB in CYCLE mode...

I'm very happy with this outcome....

Thats two HUGE improvements in JAMSTIX in three days!
The other was the 'control/paste' a pattern feature with the new 'paste' window!

WELL DONE!! have a beer or two!
( I do have another bug for you to fix but I 'll put it in another post)

Paspallum