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paspallum · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: Fills, Intros and endings

Ralph

I like the fills, intros and endings you have written.
Let me say "I hate cheese in music" and fills can be 'cheesy' most of yours are very tastefully done and are useable.

I am lucky as I have a full drumkit that I fitted out with Pearl mesh heads and triggers which are plugged in to an Alesis Dm5 module which in turn is plugged into CUBASE SX2 via my computer...

I can't play the drums by the way... so Jamstix is EXACTLY what I need to get a drum groove and arrangement happening.. and ... as the song nears completion... I have just enough skills to record (as midi) any fills or accents that I need with my real (digital) kit

How-ever... to my point...

When I am starting a song and I'm arranging as much as possible with Jamstix... one thing I do want... is to be able to insert a jamstix 'ending' or and 'intro' at various points in a song... you know how a real drummer might play an 'outro' at the end of a chorus... leave a bar and then play an intro into the bridge or second verse?

This is a very realistic and natural thing for a real drummer to do... you hear this on almost every recording ever made... but... if I place an outro in the middle of a Jamstix arrangement.... jamstix won't start up again or play any more for the rest of the song.... is there any way around this??

Paspallum

AlanB · Jamologist Joined: 23 Apr 2005 Posts: 134

The list of fills and endings looks the same to me, so what about selecting the rhythm as a fill rather than an ending?

You might also need to mute bars here and there, but I would have thought it's already possible to do what you are trying to do.

Hope this helps. Smile

AlanB

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Alan is right, the lists are the same.

You can use intros (and fills with mutes behind) freely throughout your song to do this. The next beta will fix the 'missing last crash' issue that you will get with a mute behind a fill.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

paspallum

Ralph
I ask you in advance to forgive me if I'm wrong here.

The way I see it Alan B. and yourself don't see what I'm talking about...
I don't think I expalined myself well enough... hey and sorry to take so long to get back to you on this topic... it takes a while to work through all this stuff.

The reason that I want to be able to use an intro or an outro in the middle of a song is this:
The intros and outros (and I'm sure it's the same with nortmal fills) have the actual fill part on the second half of the bar... (and I'm not a drummer... I don't read drum music) but the roll is only half a bar long.

If I do as you suggest and use a regular fill and mute it... well this just doesn't seem to work... for starters the fill does not play in that 1 bar section that I muted.. at all... no sound what-so-ever... EXCEPT for the 'new last-cymbal' thing (which is very nice by the way!)

What I'm wanting Ralph is the classic half a bar fill/intro on the second half of the bar...(this works teh outher way around for mid song 'outros' as well)

For example I might have the drums stop on the last bar of the chorus of a song (and now thansk to te X7-3 beta, that last cymbal will play out over the stopped drums) and then I'll want the guitars and instruments to start on the beginning of the next bar after the silence... but I want the drums to paly an 'intro' fill for half a bar into that next 'verse'

If I take your advice and use a regular FILL ... I get a whole bar of fill.... too much for my tastes.

I know that I can use an intro in the middle of a song... but I get a 'intro' sticks count-in.. which is cool... for time-keeping... but if I want the sticks gone then I need to edit that whole rythym to get the sticks out... and that takes time!

So what I want is the ability to be able to insert half a bar fills, intros and outros anywhere in a song... I do understands that the entire fill length will be a WHOLE bar, and that is in fact what I want anyway... it's just that I want the fill to be ONLY half of that bar.

A big ask?? yeah sure... but real drummers do this ALL THE TIME... it's just a natural way of leading a band in and out of parts of the arrangement.

If I'm missing something here or if I'm not explaining myself well enough just tell me... if I'm mis-understanding a function, I'd be very keen to have it expalined to me.

Sincerely
Paspallum

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Are you saying you need a fill that starts at beat 1 and ends at beat 3 of a bar with the underlying rhythm playing from beat 3 on?
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

Doc · Moderator Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 663

I understand he wants the fill to start on beat 3 and play till the end of the bar, which is a common drummers behaviour.
The beginning of the bar (beat 1-2) should be the underlying rhythm.
It would be a very nice feature indeed.

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Doc · Moderator Joined: 26 Feb 2005 Posts: 663

GregHolmes · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:20 am Post subject:

Sounds like he wants the first half of the bar silent, and then a half-bar fill to get back into the beat.

That's a common concept, for example, in a verse after the drums have been silent for the first sentence or two of the lyrics.
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Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

GregHolmes · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:53 am Post subject:

Yep - so he only needs to turn off the sticks count-in. Maybe he's got metronome turned on?
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Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

The stick count on intros only applies to free and keyword jam. Just switch to manual jam and it will be gone.
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Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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J.W. · Jammer Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 38

I haven't checked (I'm at work!), but can half-bar (starting on 3) fills be selected and utilised in free or keyword -jam mode? I'm thinking that when in jam mode, the fills are selected randomly - but one would want only half-bar fills to be randomly selected, not full-bar fills.

Also, if a song was really slow, say 50bpm, you might even want a fill on4! How could this be done?

Thanks

JW

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

I believe there are some 4-beat fills, not sure...if not, we need to make some Smile

I understand what you mean about filtering available fills and intros by start/end during jams. However, this is something that you'd have to edit manually after the jam when you switch to manual mode.

In Jamstix 2 you will be able to define start and end ticks for each bar so this will be a lot easier to do. You would just set the Accent Start on your bar to beat 3 and whatever fill Jamstix chooses will be realigned to fit that window.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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paspallum · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: I'm Learning!

Ralph
With regards to the intros playing with 'stick-clicks' you were right... I was using free-word... something I only do to select some rythyms... so yeah... by turning that off I can use an intro anywhere in my song arrangement without the clicks.

Yes, it is a fill starting on the 3 that I want.

You say I can use any intro that starts on the 3.
Do I just have to try them all out to see which ones do start on 3? just do it 'by ear'?

So for a drummer to 'break down' or do an outro off a chorus (for example) do I just select a fill for the last bar of the chorus and leave the bar after that muted... I mean that is simple enough to do... but will the fill sound like the drummer is 'breaking down' the beat in the same way that an outro fill will do it? I'll have to test this out extensively.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Paspallum