Rayzoon Technologies LLC

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

Hi,

Is is possible to use Build Song to create the Part structure of a new song w/o destroying the existing Groove: Style and Player settings?

IOW, suppose I've started with just the simple Verse part and found a Style and a Player that I want to use for a new Song.

Next, I would like to use Build Song to either fetch a preset structure, or hand-create one, without losing my already chosen Style and Player.

So far, I find that using Build Song blows away my Style and Player.

Of course, I can make note of them in advance and reinstate them manually, but if I can avoid that workflow step I would like to.

Actually, the drum kit is an issue too, but there is a checkbox 'Keep Current' for that (Yay!).

Is there some equivalent somewhere for Style and Player?

If not, I think it would be a helpful thing to add.

Thanks!

TheSystem · Grand Master Jam Joined: 16 Dec 2009 Posts: 294

Are there no options for Drum Style $ Drummer right above the drum kit option in the Song Builder?

Or are you saying that you pick a Style & Player (Drummer) in the Groove window, create a groove you like or it is automatically created and you want that Groove including the Drummer/Player to be used in the Song Builder?

If so then you may have to turn that Groove into a Style and use it in the Song Builder. I have not done this but a couple of times and it has been awhile. There is a video on the site that Ralph did ages ago on this topic I believe. It is done using an older version but I am pretty sure the process is the same.

When A_Zimuth chimes in, he will able to help for sure.

Brian

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

TheSystem · Grand Master Jam Joined: 16 Dec 2009 Posts: 294

This video I believe should help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrcn2d4PPe4&t=118s

Although it is not exactly what you are doing. At almost at the 2 minute mark, Ralph goes through how to turn a Groove into a Style and use it in the Song builder. As I noted, this is done in JS3 but I am pretty sure the steps are close if not the same.

I hope this helps.

Brian

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

Thank you for the video link Brian!

I will look into it.

Azimuth · Moderator & Beta Team Joined: 19 Nov 2010 Posts: 2131

In addition to what Brian (Hey Brian, how have you been doing?) said you could also lock all of the Song Parts or individual Bars you are happy with first and then change your Drummer and/or Style and it will not affect the locked events. Right click the Song Part you are happy with in the Song Sheet and choose Locking>Lock All Bars. If you choose Locking>Lock All Events, that will lock only already existing events but leave all empty cells open for recomposition when you change Drummer or Style, so I would not recommend that for what you are trying to do.
Hope this helps you Steve. Any questions feel free to ask.

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

Thank you Azimuth, good information!

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

BTW, working with 'Save Style Preset' (ala this discussion) with Jamstix inside of Bitwig, I have run into an inability to save the style preset. There is some kind of focus incompatibility going on.

I have emailed Rayzoon support, and am awaiting a reply.

I also emailed Bitwig support and they want me to fall back to the non-Beta version of Jamstix (which is -way- back AFAIAC) and tell them if the problem exists under that scenario.

I don't even know how to do that!

Azimuth · Moderator & Beta Team Joined: 19 Nov 2010 Posts: 2131

You can go back to a non-beta version by unchecking "Install Beta Versions When Available" under Install Options in the Manager app. 4.4.6 was the previous version.

SteveJ_01 · Jam Meister Joined: 01 Dec 2020 Posts: 56

Thanks again Azimuth! I have demonstrated that the problem does indeed exist as well when Jamstix 4.4.6 is used rather than the 4.5.1 beta.

I have made a short video here to illustrate:

https://www.screencast.com/t/Qkrf6l373

and I have updated Bitwig also with this information.

TheSystem · Grand Master Jam Joined: 16 Dec 2009 Posts: 294

Hey Steve

This is a long shot and even if this works, I think it is a bug.

In the Beta version, can you click the white bar at the top of JS and see if it goes from white to dark grey as if JS was selected and then try? I can see that you can click in the text field but cannot change anything.

Like I said, may not work.

Brian

magwa_101 · Junior Jammer Joined: 04 Jun 2022 Posts: 10

I read this eagerly, as I posted the same question last night.

I have tried exactly as suggested, extracting Style then Build song using the extracted style. It's never quite the same, and if it is, it's is randomly the same, i.e. not deterministic.

I conclude that if you want to tweak to a precise Groove, build the song, then edit the Groove. Lock/unlock as you need.

In the end, in my process, I export to midi and still tweak within that because subsequent song development demands it. Once you're that far in song development you really can't go back to JS or you'll get variations you may not want.

JS is like a drummer that has his own mind. Who forgets/can't recreate the exact groove "we had going yesterday", and wow, that is real to life.

I'm definitely open to other pointers, but it just seems the value of JS is it's variations. Midi export is truly the way to do "lock down".

Azimuth · Moderator & Beta Team Joined: 19 Nov 2010 Posts: 2131

It looks like you might have found a system that works for you already. The one thing I would add is if you want Jamstix to play back what you have hand-programmed precisely is to use "Machine" as your Player model. Any other Player is going to add/subtract/modify what you have programmed since that is what they are designed to do. The disadvantage with "Machine" is that you will not get any timing/power variations that the Player models offer, but if you are programming those yourself this isn't an issue.

I don't know if this will help you achieve what you are looking to do but thought it might be something helpful.

TheSystem · Grand Master Jam Joined: 16 Dec 2009 Posts: 294

"The disadvantage with "Machine" is that you will not get any timing/power variations that the Player models offer, but if you are programming those yourself this isn't an issue."

Hi Azimuth,

This is a beginner question that I have been to read about but I guess I am too lazy Smile

If a part is locked and the drummer is changed from "Machine" to another drummer, will any of the new drummer's ability to vary power/timing do anything or does the part have to be unlocked for the new drummer to have an effect?

Brian

Azimuth · Moderator & Beta Team Joined: 19 Nov 2010 Posts: 2131

As long as the Song parts/Bars are locked, changing the Player or Style should not have any effect. If just "All Events" are locked, the unlocked cells in the bar editor will be recomposed if the Player or Style changes.
What I do a lot of time if I'm happy with the main groove but not the Accents or Fills is Global>Lock All Parts and then unlock the individual Fill bars I don't like and keep recomposing or even change the Player if I want to give a different one a chance. It works really well.
So basically as long as things are locked nothing should change but you can absolutely unlock individual bars and do anything you'd like without affecting what you've already locked and are happy with. As always though, it is a very good idea to create a restore point so you have a good starting point to go back to if needed. Hope this helps Brian.