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apesma_1
Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:08 pm Post subject: Dual Drummer Setups (i.e Grateful Dead, Genesis, Crimson) |
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Hi All,
Not sure I saw this asked in the forums, so here goes:
Has anyone tried simulating the interplay of 2 drummers playing on one composition? Is it possible to use 2 instrument tracks on a DAW, with an instance of Jamstix 4 running on each one, to emulate 2 drummers playing together? For example, Chester Thompson & Phil Collins on "Los Endos"? |
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Azimuth
Moderator & Beta Team
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| You could run separate instances of JS without issue. The trick would be emulating some semblance of "logic" between the 2 "Drummers" performances. It could be done but would take some planning I think. Otherwise it would probably sound more like 2 drum kits falling down an elevator shaft. That's my take on it. |
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Knopf_
Jamologist
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| a_zimuth wrote: | | ...Otherwise it would probably sound more like 2 drum kits falling down an elevator shaft... |
Hahaha, good one. I am stil laughing. Another expression would be “it would sound more like Knopf playing the drums”. |
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jas_lan
Rayzoon Beta Team
Joined: 16 Mar 2011
Posts: 676
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| a_zimuth wrote: | | Otherwise it would probably sound more like 2 drum kits falling down an elevator shaft. That's my take on it. |
Yes. Hilarious!
Personally, I always felt like two drummers was a gimmick thing and that’s why it never stuck. Drummer and percussionist, yes, but two drummers is like two metronomes.
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Core i7 4712QM, 16GB, Cubase 9 Pro on Windows 10. Scarlett 2i2. M-Audio Axiom Pro 61. Komplete 8. Jamstix 3.6. Absolute 3 VST. 418 Carrier Landings.
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Azimuth
Moderator & Beta Team
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Personally, I always felt like two drummers was a gimmick thing and that’s why it never stuck. |
That was the way I felt about the whole Country Rock thing back in the 70's. Why have 2 Drummers if they're pretty much just playing the same thing, which was usually the case? Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of the Country Rock bands back in the day I just never quite understood that aspect of it. |
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apesma_1
Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2016
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| a_zimuth wrote: | | You could run separate instances of JS without issue. The trick would be emulating some semblance of "logic" between the 2 "Drummers" performances. It could be done but would take some planning I think. Otherwise it would probably sound more like 2 drum kits falling down an elevator shaft. That's my take on it. |
LOL. Totally agree about the planning! That's the part the would be a lot of fun for me to experiment with. Set up one track to do the simple groove, the other track for accents and fills. Back off the timing offset on one of them ever so slightly so you know which one is drunk, etc.
I just did a quick test and it works a treat. Panning each kit instrument for Drummer 1 left and Drummer 2 to the right gives a real nice stereo spread.
Thanks for the input all! |
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Knopf_
Jamologist
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| a_zimuth wrote: | | Quote: | | Personally, I always felt like two drummers was a gimmick thing and that’s why it never stuck. |
That was the way I felt about the whole Country Rock thing back in the 70's. Why have 2 Drummers if they're pretty much just playing the same thing, which was usually the case? Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of the Country Rock bands back in the day I just never quite understood that aspect of it. |
Well, I went to Tortoise in 2012 (missed them in 2016, I must drive 120 km to Santiago on work day, where this kind of things take place): two drummers in many songs and I found it great. I went to King Krimson in October 2019: three (!!) drummers. Great, too. |
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pro_fusion
Junior Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jas_lan wrote: |
Personally, I always felt like two drummers was a gimmick thing and that’s why it never stuck. Drummer and percussionist, yes, but two drummers is like two metronomes. |
The Allman Brothers made it work because Butch Trucks kept the solid beat while Jaimoe sort of knitted his drum parts more freely around that. The bassists had a challenge because they couldn't lock onto either guy--they had to sort of fit into the middle of the groove between them.
In Jamstix, I think you could replicate that by going with a solid, straightahead drummer, such as Will, Tony or Charlie, restrained settings, and then using a radically different drummer in the second Jamstix instance--someone with a looser sense of groove. You'd also want to dynamically vary the groove sense in that second drummer. |
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E_V
Jammer
Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Drummer Setups (i.e Grateful Dead, Genesis, Crimson |
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| apesma_1 wrote: | Hi All,
Not sure I saw this asked in the forums, so here goes:
Has anyone tried simulating the interplay of 2 drummers playing on one composition? Is it possible to use 2 instrument tracks on a DAW, with an instance of Jamstix 4 running on each one, to emulate 2 drummers playing together? For example, Chester Thompson & Phil Collins on "Los Endos"? |
I do this all the time to emulate my old band from the 70s, that had - of course - 2 drummers. Not only no problem to have to instances of Jamstix play with 2 drummers brains, it works exactly as the original line-up.
"2 drummers-thing doesnt stick"... wrong. Sticks absolute. I have with the exception of a few years always played with 2 or more drummers/percussionists. The groove-carpet that is layed by 2 drummers cant be beaten. Everything swings...
So, yes, 2 drummers of Jamstix works like a charm. And I have them both playing the exactly same kit, a little bit adjustment to get them to the same volume, and spread them in the stereo-fiels out L-50%L and 50%R-R to have the middleground free for bass and vocals and solo-instruments. |
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Jae.Thomas
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:58 am Post subject: |
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yeah the dual drumkit thing in real life works because they work with each other in real time. I would think you would need very similar players in this scenario.
Putting Steward copeland w danny carey would be a bad move |
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Azimuth
Moderator & Beta Team
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 2131
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Putting Steward copeland w danny carey would be a bad move |
Damn, there goes my idea for Reggae Prog Metal! |
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Al_Chuck
Junior Jammer
Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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The Tedeschi Trucks Band also has two drummers -- Tyler Greenwell and J.J. Johnson -- and they are one of the best bands I've ever seen.
King Crimson actually had THREE drummers in their latest iteration (sadly one of them, Bill Rieflin, died last month.)
Last edited by Al_Chuck on Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Knopf_
Jamologist
Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Posts: 158
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Until I understand, Bill Rieflin, although he was drummer, was in the keys with King Crimson. But I didn’t know he died, how sad. I saw him in October with the band. |
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Al_Chuck
Junior Jammer
Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, I missed a few beats. This is from a Wikipedia article on King Crimson drummers:
| Quote: | | In September 2013, despite claiming the previous year that he was retiring, Fripp announced another reformation of King Crimson. In addition to Levin, Mastoletto and Harrison, the eighth lineup was confirmed to include returning saxophonist and flautist Mel Collins, new guitarist and vocalist Jakko Jakszyk, and third drummer Bill Rieflin. In March 2016, Jeremy Stacey replaced Rieflin for the year's touring, ultimately remaining when Rieflin returned (switching over to only keyboards) in January 2017. |
I saw them in 2013 or 2014 when Rieflin was the third drummer. I missed the post-2016 changes.[/quote] |
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Dali_S
Jamologist
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 134
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a big fan of KC and friend with Adrian, Tony and Pat.
I was lucky enough to see KC post-2014 8 times so far. Two show in July are canceled around here. Bummer.
This August I'm suppose to play Indiscipline with Pat at Camp with a second Camper drummer. We just don't know if Camp will happen and it sucks.
This is a life changing event: https://www.threeofaperfectpair.com/ |
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