Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[Foolomon_]

So I've played a bit with JS3.3 and am now ready to try my hand at song creation using it. In the past, I haven't created songs in my DAW so much as "writing down" what I've heard in my head. And while this gives me the exact result I want, it can limit somewhat the creative aspects of authoring since I don't start "writing" until I know what I want to write.

I'm definitely interested in hearing what everyone's workflows are, not just for drum track creation but for the entire songwriting process (up until you start mixing completed tracks unless you continue to use JS afterward).

I use Cubase 6.5 and Komplete 8 if this helps.

[ZapAxe]

Many times I'll be driving and song idea's come to me. Usually it starts with a vocal melody which I feel should be the main focus in a song. Soon along comes the multitrack version in my head, basic drum beat, bass, guitar, key bits. I'll also bring in some counter-vocal-melodies..

then ... I'll bring in the EQ, volume levels, reverb, delay, chorus, limiters ...ok just kidding!

But continuing with the above (before the last silly part)...I'll have often sung the original vocal melody idea into my smart phone's recorder function, then import it into my DAW. From there I'll try to remember all my instrumental idea's that were in my head & try to bring them to life...either by playing/sounding it out on the actual instrument(s) with/without involving a VSTi or if I have to, use the VSTi with writing midi parts with a mouse and/or in the case of a drum VSTi, use pre-made midi beats. In the past I just played my ekit which is often a LOT faster getting something basic down.
In the past I recorded audio & played the instruments only. With VSTi's and/or midi I think I still prefer to play them over programming, but I think overall it's best to at leat play/record instruments in midi so I can tweek the performances & such to better resemble perfection than resemble schlop
Then I'll do my best fiddling (for real this time) add reverb, delay, play with levels, etc ..until I give up and say "good enough!"

[Foolomon_]

Hey Zap.

Thanks for answering, but it seems I wasn't clear. I'm trying to find out how to integrate JS into my songwriting workflow. The problem I discovered is that when I'm writing a song I tend to hear the parts in my head before I start tracking, and that includes drums.

I bought JS more for its composition abilities than anything else. So I'm wondering how to integrate the great AI in JS with the rest of my workflow even if it means changing how I approach songwriting.

[Sid Chigger]

Once I've got the progression decided and charted, I bring up JS, select a style to get me in the general ball park of where I wanna be and I select Charlie as the drummer and a standard kit.. I manually create a simple 1bar pattern - nothing more than a glorified metronome - with a kick, snare/hat, set the part repetitions to 300, turn off accents and choose to have no repeat fills.. Then I record my first tracks to that.. Usually an acoustic rhythm gtr and I'll do a scratch vocal... Then, I figure up the bar lengths of each segment of the song, I ditch the settings I have for the glorified metronome and I use the Song Builder to create the parts and edit them from there..
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Main Rig: C5.5(32bit), Win 7 64, i7 970, 12GB, UAD2, FF800, JS3
Emergency Backup Rig: C5.5, WL6.1, Dell Core 2 Duo 6600, FF800, 1 UAD1, 1 UAD2 Duo, JS3

[andrew_ransom]

Granted I'm still pretty new to JS3, and will probably get schooled by the JS experts out there, but the following seems to be what's working for me to build a JS drum track. This is after I've recorded the song with guitar and vocals to a click track.
1. Select your drum kit in JS
2. Select your drum style and drummer, unless you want to keep it generic for now
3. Go to the wizard, make sure the drum, style and drummer are the same as what you selected. Create a song with one of each basic part in your song, ie something like VCBS (verse, chorus, bridge, solo). This lets you build the main rhythm for each major part of the song
4. Go to the song tab, click on the song part in the left box and then click on compose button in the lower Song tab section. Then click on the cirlular arrow to let JS build the groove. Tweak the brain until you have the basic groove you like for that part. Do this for each song part
5. Frigure out and write down all the sections of your song, in sequence, with bar lengths and repetitions for each part.
6. Now, build out the rest of the song in JS by adding new parts in the left side song structure area. Right click on one of the existing song parts and create a new section above or below the part you selected. Label appropriately and turn off the RF and TF for now. Also set your bar lengths and repeats all appropriately
7. You can now copy the original groove from each of the original parts you let JS create to the new parts of the same type. For example, select the original verse section you let JS create a groove for and right click on it. Select copy and then paste it into your newly created verse sections. This way, all your verses, chorus's, etc will have the same base grooves repeated.
8. From here I do all my tweaking. You can set all the repeat or transitions fills between parts or bars. You can tweak any bar grooves with brain editor, etc.

If there is a more effective way of establishing a base set of rythms across multiple verses, chorus's, etc. I'd like to hear from anyone else.

[Foolomon_]

And I suppose for parts where the drum is echoing the rhythm of another part you hand edit those measures? Listen to the intro of this song:

http://music.shaven-goodness.info/track/crickhollow-stomp

In first few measures the hi-hat matches the bass and organ, and just before the first verse the snare rolls match the horns.

I already know I'm going to prefer editing drum parts in Cubase. Is it possible to use the drag-n-drop feature of JS with Cubase or do I have to export to MIDI, edit in Cubase, and then re-import into JS to play?

Or - crossing my fingers here - has anyone made or heard of JS kits being converted into Battery kits? That would be ideal since I could use JS to do the initial composition, edit in Cubase and playback using Battery as a VST in Cubase.

[andrew_ransom]

yeah, I don't think JS has quite that kind of sophistication to listen to and follow the music structure. If I am wrong, WOW, but I haven't seen that capability. So, manual editing is the only way I know to do what you are talking about.

Yes, you can click and drag bars from the bottom left JS song structure right into the Cubase midi track editor, and it will paste the midi data. I haven't really tried manually editing JS in Cubase this way to see how it plays it back. Not sure how the JS brain deals with it, or maybe you have to set JS into the Midi mode to keep it from writing over what you've edited manually?

[ZapAxe]

Ah, specifically JS work flow..didn't get that obviously.

I may have mentioned in the Cubase thread that I bought JS 1 at a time when I really wasn't using VSTi's much at all...then upgraded to JS 2 and still wasn't using VSTi's beyond experimenting & learning. Since I really got going with using VSTi's I haven't used/experimented with JS as my Go-To drum programs have been Toontrack.

When I was toying around in JS last, I found that the idea's in my head weren't neccessarily what JS wanted to create...though eventually as JS rhythms evolved, something resembling my own idea's would pass by, then evolve into something else. So I haven't developed a JS workflow per say.

It's been a while since I used JS but now that I'm better versed in using VSTi's I'm really wanting to revisit JS.

[Foolomon_]

What I think I'm missing is an easy way to audition drummers, drumkits, playing styles, and variations by fiddling with the knobs.

If my song is divided into sections, I'd like to loop through a specific section and tweak the playing by moving knobs around and stuff until I get to a desired "mental attitude" by the AI. I can't do that currently without a lot of hassle.