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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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 Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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All,
Very excited about working with the combo of Jamstix and DFH C&V but I am totally lost with respect to a workflow or how to set Jamstix up with C&V properly.
In my ideal world - I want to build my entire drum arrangement in Jamstix and ultimately export a correct (Superior mapped) MIDI arrangement that can be used with C&V.
Firstly - I have downloaded the C&V mappings provided on the website but what kit combos do these 4 mapping files relate to within C&V? Does DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm mean I should load the NC preset drumkit in C&V? Or am I totally out to lunch on this?
Secondly - can I just load DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm in JamStix and get Jamstix to use it's internal sounds so I can build an arrangement using that mapping and output the MIDI file using that mapping. Quite frankly loading Jamstix AND C&V is totally cumbersome and just too resource intensive for me. Just loading up Jamstix alone...doing the arrangement with the internal sounds as my guide and then writing a C&V compliant kit MIDI file would make my day.
After completing the MIDI file output...I would then load up C&V and mess around with it's thousand and one settings and ultimately bounce the C&V drum tracks down to audio for inclusion in my arrangements.
Any workflow tips or tricks that anyone else is using with DFH Superior or with C&V would be most appreciated. Even with Battery 2 as well...I have just purchased that as well and want to get the most out of it coupled with Jamstix.
Cheers,
VP |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Vocalpoint wrote: | Firstly - I have downloaded the C&V mappings provided on the website but what kit combos do these 4 mapping files relate to within C&V?
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The Jamstix C&V mappings take care of intializing C&V, there are no other steps and no kit loading in C&V involved.
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Secondly - can I just load DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm in JamStix and get Jamstix to use it's internal sounds so I can build an arrangement using that mapping and output the MIDI file using that mapping. Quite frankly loading Jamstix AND C&V is totally cumbersome and just too resource intensive for me. Just loading up Jamstix alone...doing the arrangement with the internal sounds as my guide and then writing a C&V compliant kit MIDI file would make my day.
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You could use normal Jamstix mappings and internal sounds to build the arrangement. When satisified, just load a C&V mapping with 'MIDI-Out Only' checked, which means C&V will not be loaded. Then play the whole arrangement and record the MIDI Out. You can then route the data of that track to C&V.
Of course there are other ways to do this...
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Zauni wrote: | | The Jamstix C&V mappings take care of intializing C&V, there are no other steps and no kit loading in C&V involved. |
So what do the 4 mappings actually mean? Does loading one of these simply set the correct mappings - as in I am on my own within the Superior plugin to load whatever kit I want - and it will just work?
| Zauni wrote: | | You could use normal Jamstix mappings and internal sounds to build the arrangement. When satisified, just load a C&V mapping with 'MIDI-Out Only' checked, which means C&V will not be loaded. Then play the whole arrangement and record the MIDI Out. You can then route the data of that track to C&V. Of course there are other ways to do this... |
Still not clear on this. Just tried it and no sounds coming from Jamstix. Can you walk me thru the setup?
Is this correct:
1. Load new project
2. Load Jamstix into VSTi rack (Nuendo 3)
3. Build simple arrangement using one pre-build pattern (From the 1990's selection) and internal Jamstix sounds. Hit play in Nuendo - can hear it fine.
4. Back to the single MIDI track in project - record enable the track and set it's Input to Jamstix.
5. Hit play in Nuendo - can hear Jamstix sounds and also set meters moving on record enabled Midi Track. Roll a few bars and it records fine.
6. So then I click on Mapping tab - choose Load and select DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm and select MIDI OUT ONLY.
7. Again - I get Nuendo recording MIDI...hit play in Nuendo.
8. Can see meters moving while recording MIDI from Jamstix...but no sound from Jamstix...what am I doing wrong? Or is this as good as it gets? My sounds are set to Internal
Also you mention: Of course there are other ways to do this...
What are some of those ways?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Cheers,
VP |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Vocalpoint wrote: |
6. So then I click on Mapping tab - choose Load and select DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm and select MIDI OUT ONLY.
7. Again - I get Nuendo recording MIDI...hit play in Nuendo.
8. Can see meters moving while recording MIDI from Jamstix...but no sound from Jamstix...what am I doing wrong? Or is this as good as it gets? My sounds are set to Internal
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If you want to hear C&V being played by Jamstix then do not check 'MIDI Out Only'. I told you to check it because you had indicated you wanted to just record the MIDI output and then route it to C&V w/o Jamstix.
Let's do a simple check:
- load Jamstix
- load a rhyhtm
- load C&V mapping but 'MIDI Out Only' unchecked this time
- hit Play and after a while (due to C&V load time) you should hear Jamstix playing C&V sounds
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Ralph Zeuner
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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Zauni wrote: |
If you want to hear C&V being played by Jamstix then do not check 'MIDI Out Only'. I told you to check it because you had indicated you wanted to just record the MIDI output and then route it to C&V w/o Jamstix.
Let's do a simple check:
- load Jamstix
- load a rhyhtm
- load C&V mapping but 'MIDI Out Only' unchecked this time
- hit Play and after a while (due to C&V load time) you should hear Jamstix playing C&V sounds |
Ralph,
I guess I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I don't want to load or hear C&V ever during song construction. Like I said earlier - too cumbersome...sounds are glitching and burping...etc etc...I would rather just use Jamstix internal soundset since it's fast and at the ready.
To recap: I want to construct in Jamstix (using internal sounds)...then output my arrangement via MIDI OUT using a C&V mapping to write the MIDI so that when I switch to C&V later - I can play back the arrangement correctly...BUT when I am feeding MIDI OUT from Jamstix using that C&V mapping - I still want to hear what's going on....this is not happening.
Do I need to create an "internal" mapping that is identical to a C&V mapping to be able to hear the internal sounds as I am feeding MIDI out?
VP |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Vocalpoint wrote: |
Do I need to create an "internal" mapping that is identical to a C&V mapping to be able to hear the internal sounds as I am feeding MIDI out?
VP |
You can't have Jamstix output in C&V mode and still hear Jamstix internal sounds. Since you've built the arrangement with the internal sounds, you only lose sound while recording the final MIDI output in C&V mode. Once done you route the data to a C&V track and will hear it again.
Btw, how much RAM do you have?
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Ralph Zeuner
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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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| Zauni wrote: | | You can't have Jamstix output in C&V mode and still hear Jamstix internal sounds. |
Glad we have that cleared up.
| Zauni wrote: | | Btw, how much RAM do you have? |
My machine is more than capable (3.2GHZ P4 with 2 GB RAM, 10000 RPM Raptor drives etc etc)...but C&V still acts like a wet blanket while building an arrangement. I keep getting the "Corruption" and "Not Loaded" LEDs lighting, glitches while the Superior instrument keeps deciding which sounds to load etc etc plus it is completely pointless to chew up gobs of RAM with a C&V kit loaded for straight programming purposes.
Great idea in theory but for me...switching patterns...moving bits and pieces around quickly...wanting to hear sounds instantly...I would rather get a solid arrangement together using the super-fast internal soundset and worry about the C&V stuff after the fact by simply feeding it the resultant MIDI file.
Besides - these mappings are a bit suspect as well. For example - let's say I create an arrangement against the DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm file...and write out a MIDI part using it . Then I go to C&V and select the Slingerland kit preset - when I start to play this file - Superior immediately starts lighting up the "Not Loaded" led...indicating that the MIDI file has elements that cannot be played back using this particular kit.
Do these mapping files directly relate to any specific kit in C&V...I guess I just don't understand the logic all the way thru.
Update when you can.
VP |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Confused: Jamstix and DFH Custom and Vintage |
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[quote="Vocalpoint"] | Zauni wrote: |
My machine is more than capable (3.2GHZ P4 with 2 GB RAM, 10000 RPM Raptor drives etc etc)...but C&V still acts like a wet blanket while building an arrangement. I keep getting the "Corruption" and "Not Loaded" LEDs lighting, glitches while the Superior instrument keeps deciding which sounds to load etc etc plus it is completely pointless to chew up gobs of RAM with a C&V kit loaded for straight programming purposes.
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Make sure not to use the DFHS cache. Most Jamstix DFHS and C&V mappings don't use it. That way the Superior VSTi should load the samples all into RAM which may take 20 seconds or so but after that all should be tight. If not then there's a config problem.
| Quote: |
Besides - these mappings are a bit suspect as well. For example - let's say I create an arrangement against the DFH C&V 800 Set 1.rdm file...and write out a MIDI part using it . Then I go to C&V and select the Slingerland kit preset - when I start to play this file - Superior immediately starts lighting up the "Not Loaded" led...indicating that the MIDI file has elements that cannot be played back using this particular kit.
Do these mapping files directly relate to any specific kit in C&V...I guess I just don't understand the logic all the way thru.
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Just load a C&V mapping into Jamstix then click 'Configure' to get to the Superior GUI and save the kit. That way you can load the kit later into C&V when you are feeding the saved MIDI track and have C&V configured the same way as the Jamstix mapping.
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dach
Junior Jammer
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Vocal Point,
Let Jamstix run for about 20-30 seconds at a high tempo, then adjust the volume slider or whatever it's called downward to allow lower velocity samples to load... It takes less than a minute... It took a while for me to realize that's really the best way... a little cumbersome but not everything can be easy. Now, I wouldn't do it any other way... especially if you are basing mic placement or timbre decisions on other instruments directly from the kit.
also unless you want every single drum in DFHS or C&V to play, including stuff like special, roto tom, etc, load a smaller size .rdm in Jamstix or the "not loaded warning" will appear.
After you get familiar with everything, you will probably want to create your own mappings in Nuendo. I made a couple for the Toontrack stuff and a couple for the e-kit so I can always use the superior mappings (consistancy between projects) within the DFHS interface... hope this helps somewhat. |
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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Dach,
Thanks for the info. I must admit - it was a bit of a frustrating weekend but finally after Ralph suggested turning off the Caching in C&V - I finally got to cranking out some pretty cool stuff.
I am still foggy on these C&V mappings tho. The way I interpret this tip from Ralph:
"Just load a C&V mapping into Jamstix then click 'Configure' to get to the Superior GUI and save the kit. That way you can load the kit later into C&V when you are feeding the saved MIDI track and have C&V configured the same way as the Jamstix mapping"
Since I am being told to "save the kit" - that seems to indicate that Jamstix is somehow telling Superior to load something.
Even tho many have said these mappings have absolutely nothing to do with specific kits in C&V - I could swear that when I start an empty project in Nuendo...add Jamstix...create a basic arrangement...load a C&V mapping and then start Jamstix rolling - some kit is being loaded into C&V...how/where did this kit come from? How are these specific pieces (snare, kick, hats) etc being chosen? Are they hard wired into the mapping?
I was under the impression that after selecting a C&V mapping - I had to actually click around in the Superior interface and actually select a kit to load. Is this correct?
I do wish these mappings did relate to the actual kits in C&V to avoid any confusion at all. As it stands right now - I have no idea what instruments are being loaded and why. Ultimately - here is my dream workflow at this stage:
For example - I just want to go to Jamstix and load a newly created "C&V Slingerland Kit.rdm" mapping file and know that C&V Superior is now ready to go with the actual Slingerland kit in RAM at the ready.
When I am done my arrangement in Jamstix and export my final MIDI file - I want to close Jamstix up completely...free up RAM...etc etc...then place my newly written C&V-ready MIDI file on track 1...activate C&V Superior in the VSTi rack in Nuendo and select the Slingerland kit as my sound set...then feed C&V Superior my finished MIDI file and have it play back perfectly (With no weird "Not loaded" LEDs or anything). Is this possible?
Can anyone help a noob with the steps to create a certified working mapping file that will correctly load the actual Slingerland kit preset in C&V?
Cheers!
Bruce |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vocalpoint wrote: | Since I am being told to "save the kit" - that seems to indicate that Jamstix is somehow telling Superior to load something.
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Yes, Jamstix C&V mappings contain C&V kit data
| Quote: | ..add Jamstix...create a basic arrangement...load a C&V mapping and then start Jamstix rolling - some kit is being loaded into C&V...how/where did this kit come from? How are these specific pieces (snare, kick, hats) etc being chosen? Are they hard wired into the mapping?
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Yes, a kit is loaded and it is hard-coded in the Jamstix mapping. Kit pieces etc. were chosen by us and adjusted to our liking.
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I was under the impression that after selecting a C&V mapping - I had to actually click around in the Superior interface and actually select a kit to load. Is this correct?
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Nope, no need to do that unless you want to build a new Jamstix C&V mapping.
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For example - I just want to go to Jamstix and load a newly created "C&V Slingerland Kit.rdm" mapping file and know that C&V Superior is now ready to go with the actual Slingerland kit in RAM at the ready.
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The kits in C&V are just suggestions but if you want to use them as is with Jamstix all you have to do is load a C&V mapping into Jamstix, then open the C&V GUI and load the desired kit (i.e. Slingerland). Let Jamstix play a groove, listen to the kit and make any adjustments you deem necessary, then close the C&V GUI and save the mapping in Jamstix (i.e. 'C&V Slingerland'. That's it.
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When I am done my arrangement in Jamstix and export my final MIDI file - I want to close Jamstix up completely...free up RAM...etc etc...then place my newly written C&V-ready MIDI file on track 1...activate C&V Superior in the VSTi rack in Nuendo and select the Slingerland kit as my sound set...then feed C&V Superior my finished MIDI file and have it play back perfectly (With no weird "Not loaded" LEDs or anything). Is this possible?
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The only missing piece in the puzzle is that you need to save the kit (dfh file) in the C&V GUI while it is loaded in Jamstix. You then load this kit into C&V when you feed the MIDI track to C&V in the final step. This ensures that C&V is using the same configuration in both modes.
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Ralph Zeuner
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Vocalpoint
Jammer
Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Ralph!
Awesome...I think I finally "get it" now. The kit data that was being loaded was throwin' me off!
Was there any particulars that you used in building these 4 mappings? Did you just audition different kicks, snares etc etc until you arrived at something cool and then saved it as a mapping?
Nice to know that Jamstix makes this so easy. I can hardly wait to get back into the studio tonight to try this!
Cheers,
Bruce |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Vocalpoint wrote: | Was there any particulars that you used in building these 4 mappings? Did you just audition different kicks, snares etc etc until you arrived at something cool and then saved it as a mapping?
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Yes, I just combined sounds that I thought worked well together and adjusted mic levels.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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