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Micromike
Junior Jammer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:28 am Post subject: User interface comments |
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Hi Rayzoon
I've just downloaded the demo of Jamstix. It's impressive. Take or leave my comments...I hope you see them as constructive rather than nit picking over things - especially as I have yet to buy it!
I find that the sound is great and the rhythms are great but the user interface I personally find difficult to get on with. You need to redesign the interface!
Examples of this - when you are in the arrange page it's very fiddly that one can't select a whole list of rhythms instead of having to open a file browser every time to select a new Rhythm for a new track. Maybe some kind of pop up list against each track would be a better idea - ie right mouse click over a track and up pops a whole list of rhythms with genres and sub menus - all there instantly at the click of a mouse.
Why is it when you open the file browser it 'resets' itself and you need to click on the genre again (e.g. rock) before you can select a rock rhythm. Too many mouse clicks needed!
I also feel the track text in the Arrange page needs to be more ledgable - why not use black text instead of grey/blue? Maybe horizontally stripe each track as well...this makes it easier on the eye when you're looking at the red blocks as I find my eyes is having to 'trace back' to the Rhythm names....having a clear alterate striped rows makes reading easier ( as it spreadsheets - easier to read when rows alternate in colour) . Am I making any sense ? It's difficult to describe .....
I think the green buttons /text is difficult to read - a more sympathetic colour would be easier on the eyes ( as are the fonts to the buttons). White bold text with bright green glows...it's different..!
It would be more fluid if you could start the sequencer off and just cherry pick rhythms as the sequencer is going - say you feel a fill coming up - you could just hit a 'fill' button and it get's recorded as you have the sequencer playing. Many a time I clicked the 'name' button and expected to be able to pick new rhythms from this button but I clicked it only to find this button just renames the current rhythm - I don't feel that's intuitive.
So I think you need a record button and a way of making it much easier to pick rhythms as the music is playing along . Maybe you can't do it this way because of the way the algorithms work?
There's loads of positive comments about the plug in ......but when I tried building a basic rock track today with the demo and just loading some fills it all seemed to be a bit convoluted trying to get get it done and I felt the frustration kicking in slightly. I felt it was a shame because I thought wow this thing sounds good.
I hope I won't upset too many users by these comments (or you) ....you have a lot of happy users so far - I expect I'll buy Jamstix after I've played around with it today......us bedroom musicians need virtual drummers and you seem to have the best one yet.
thanks for listening. |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: Re: User interface comments |
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Hi, Mike! First off, thank you for your comments. We absolutely value criticism as it will help us refine our product. Thanks for taking the time to put this all down!
| Micromike wrote: | when you are in the arrange page it's very fiddly that one can't select a whole list of rhythms instead of having to open a file browser every time to select a new Rhythm for a new track. Maybe some kind of pop up list against each track would be a better idea - ie right mouse click over a track and up pops a whole list of rhythms with genres and sub menus - all there instantly at the click of a mouse.
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Sounds good, we'll look into it.
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Why is it when you open the file browser it 'resets' itself and you need to click on the genre again (e.g. rock) before you can select a rock rhythm. Too many mouse clicks needed!
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It only does it with Cubase and other hosts that fully destroy the GUI when you close it. We'll see if we can work around it.
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I also feel the track text in the Arrange page needs to be more ledgable - why not use black text instead of grey/blue? Maybe horizontally stripe each track as well...this makes it easier on the eye when you're looking at the red blocks as I find my eyes is having to 'trace back' to the Rhythm names....having a clear alterate striped rows makes reading easier ( as it spreadsheets - easier to read when rows alternate in colour) . Am I making any sense ? It's difficult to describe .....
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Yep, fully understand. We have this planned for Jamstix 2 but maybe we can throw it into an update for JS1 as well.
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I think the green buttons /text is difficult to read - a more sympathetic colour would be easier on the eyes ( as are the fonts to the buttons). White bold text with bright green glows...it's different..!
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We've gotten a few comments on this and will definitely overhaul buttons and labels for Jamstix 2 next year.
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It would be more fluid if you could start the sequencer off and just cherry pick rhythms as the sequencer is going - say you feel a fill coming up - you could just hit a 'fill' button and it get's recorded as you have the sequencer playing.
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If you open the FIE (Fill/Intro/Ending) dialog in the arranger (right-click on any old bar) you will see trigger notes that you can assign. Hitting those triggers will then insert in real-time. We are also planning keyboard shortcuts to do this for JS2.
Thanks again!
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Micromike
Junior Jammer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for replying to all my comments. I didn't expect you to update it like you did. Well done.
I really do think you're onto a good thing here with this plug in...I am sure it's taken a lot of work just to get it where it's at now.
I don't want to go overboard with suggestions but I can think of a few more sitting here now.....I am sure some of these suggestions have been made already...sorry if they have. I am still reading all the forums to see what else has been said.
The arrange page.....I think a good idea might be to have one single track line (instead of multiple tracks) with the blocks that make up each bar as they are now. If you were able to right click over any bar and select a rhythm from a pop up list that might be more intuitive when building a track. When you get to the end of a section you right mouse click on a bar and select e.g. Fills>Rock 4/4 Fill 8 and the name of the rhythm is written on the block itself. This might make reading the progression of a song easier - like the way sequencers have blocks that are named.
Another thing I think would be great would be the provision to be able to record and alter recorded rhythms with the all the Jamstix options helping the musician to vary this basic recorded rhythm. Let's say I have a tune in my head and I can hear the basic rhythm ...if I could play a bar of that rhythm from the midi keyboard into Jamstix you could then use the various options to make the pattern more interesting and varied ( e.g. altering hi hats / snares). If you could save a pool of these variations as you are experimenting then you could build up a basic library for a tune which could be picked in the arrange page. Then you might want to save the good ones in a 'Favourites' folder ready for use on the next tune.
When I sit at the keyboard to play piano in I find the main problem for getting songs done and sounding good are always the drums. People listen to my stuff and say it's great but the drums in the songs always suck! Keyboards with built in rhythms don't seem to offer a lot of variation in the basic styles and the rhythms sound stagnant with many of them only having 3 of variations per genre. This plug in you have created has so much potential and could be the answer to all backroom bedroom musicians' prayers from what I can see so far! |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Micromike wrote: | I don't want to go overboard with suggestions but I can think of a few more sitting here now.....
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Oh boy, I opened the gates ... 
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The arrange page.....I think a good idea might be to have one single track line (instead of multiple tracks) with the blocks that make up each bar as they are now. If you were able to right click over any bar and select a rhythm from a pop up list that might be more intuitive when building a track. When you get to the end of a section you right mouse click on a bar and select e.g. Fills>Rock 4/4 Fill 8 and the name of the rhythm is written on the block itself. This might make reading the progression of a song easier - like the way sequencers have blocks that are named.
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Hmm, we had a similar idea when we tried to marry the Jamstix and JamBace arranger needs but decided against it because many people like the ability to visualize the flow of a song by the placement of the bars. We are chewing on various improvements though for JS2.
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Another thing I think would be great would be the provision to be able to record and alter recorded rhythms with the all the Jamstix options helping the musician to vary this basic recorded rhythm. Let's say I have a tune in my head and I can hear the basic rhythm ...if I could play a bar of that rhythm from the midi keyboard into Jamstix you could then use the various options to make the pattern more interesting and varied ( e.g. altering hi hats / snares).
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There is a 'Learn' button in the rhythm tab that let's you play the beat on the keyboard and Jamstix picks it up. You could pick a rhythm from the library that has a nice hihat feel you like and then clear the kick and snare panels, hit 'Learn' and add the rhyhtm you want with the keys.
In JS2 we will greatly expand the randomizer function so that it will create alterations of a given rhythm as well.
Thanks!
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
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Micromike
Junior Jammer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: |
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OK I won't ask you any more things after this post until I've bought Jamstix as you're spending a lot of time with me! Sorry for the length of this.........
My point about the blocks being named (like named parts in sequencers) is that people would be able to visualise the whole song a lot more easliy than you can now. The problem at the moment is that everytime a Rhythm changes on the arrange page ( w using different blocks on different tracks ), you have to trace your eyes along horizontally to the Rhythm names. So you take your eye off the arrangement to read the Rhythms (ok it's not a far distance but you get what I mean!). It would be better if the blocks were named with the Rhythm name, so you don't loose track of where you are. If you were to click on a block - up opens the Jam screen with the selected Rhythm. I think it would be *so* much easier! -you are still using bars and blocks - so you would still be visuallisng the song almost as it is now.
I felt a need to want to loop a quick section of bars today in the Arrange page as I was jamming on the keyboard...any ideas?
I was trying out a blues track today with a shuffle - the snares didn't seem to shuffle in 8ths ( the extra flams e.t.c) - the hi hats do though. When I tried to add some extra snares (ie extram flammy snares to vary the rhythm a bit ) it was a bit hit and miss . I tried using the 'ghost' snare option but too many snares came out so I tried reducing accents e.t.c. Maybe in the future when you have more time you might create a wealth of patterns ( e.g. 6/8 shuffle variations)....I am sure the user would be happy to use predifined patterns ( the lazy musician like me!).
I like the way you solved velocity issues with each instrument ( e.g when one wants to make the snare quieter but keep the rest of the kit intact)....it's nice you can draw on a graph and get subtle velocity variations on the snare...it keeps the rhythm sounding fresh.
One problem I have is being able to start Jamstix from an external midi sequencer. I can't get Jamstix to play from the start of the arrangement with a triggered midi note. I'm trying to use the 'Jam Start/Stop' with a midi key. I read the help file but it wasn't too clear for me. Are you meant to be able to start the arrangement off playing with a specific midi key? I can't get it to work! I wonder why? I can see midi going into Jamstix...it would be useful to be able to see which midi notes are being triggered on input just to aid problems like this...why not have a button 'Play: Enter midi note from keyboard now'. It would make mapping keys to functions a lot easier as I'm trying to work out why my D-1 on the piano is not starting the Jam Start/Stop!
Arrgh sorry for all the comments! I promise no more now  |
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Micromike
Junior Jammer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Just to say I used your 'Learn' function to play in some Rhythms and to try and record some. I wanted to record in 8 shuffle rhythms one after the other as a jam. (No pun!). It can be done but it involves pressing 'Learn', recording, stopping, naming the rhythm, saving the rhythm. It would be great not having to stop at the keyboard..then go to the computer....then go back to the keyboard...then computer...you get what i mean! ....anyway all food for thought......... |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Micromike wrote: | If you were to click on a block - up opens the Jam screen with the selected Rhythm.
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We'll be able to add 'Double-click bar->open rhythm tab' in the next update.
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I felt a need to want to loop a quick section of bars today in the Arrange page as I was jamming on the keyboard...any ideas?
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You can use LiveLoops for that. There's a short section about it in the manual, we hope to have a more extensive documentation soon. Basically, click in the arranger within the track that says LiveLoop at the start bar of your loop and a loop dialog opens. Select the length in bars, give it a name (limited to 4 chars) and you can also assign it a trigger key.
After that, if the 'Enable LiveLoops' box in the arranger is checked and Jamstix is within the assigned bars it will play them looped.
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I was trying out a blues track today with a shuffle - the snares didn't seem to shuffle in 8ths ( the extra flams e.t.c) - the hi hats do though. When I tried to add some extra snares (ie extram flammy snares to vary the rhythm a bit ) it was a bit hit and miss . I tried using the 'ghost' snare option but too many snares came out so I tried reducing accents e.t.c. Maybe in the future when you have more time you might create a wealth of patterns ( e.g. 6/8 shuffle variations)....I am sure the user would be happy to use predifined patterns ( the lazy musician like me!).
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Yes, shuffle and non 4/4 rhythms need more attention. This is planned for JS2.
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One problem I have is being able to start Jamstix from an external midi sequencer. I can't get Jamstix to play from the start of the arrangement with a triggered midi note. I'm trying to use the 'Jam Start/Stop' with a midi key. I read the help file but it wasn't too clear for me. Are you meant to be able to start the arrangement off playing with a specific midi key? I can't get it to work! I wonder why? I can see midi going into Jamstix...it would be useful to be able to see which midi notes are being triggered on input just to aid problems like this...why not have a button 'Play: Enter midi note from keyboard now'. It would make mapping keys to functions a lot easier as I'm trying to work out why my D-1 on the piano is not starting the Jam Start/Stop!
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The Jam Start/Stop is designed for free and keyword jam. It will hold JS until the assigned key is pressed. The jam then starts with an intro. When the key is pressed again, an ending is played and the jam stops.
To use this feature, press the desired key on your keyboard and after that the keyboard icon next to the Jam Start/Stop list. The list should automatically jump to the key you pressed. You can then activate the start/stop mechanism with the checkbox to the right of the keyboard icon.
To trigger the playback of the whole arrangement with a key, set a liveloop from bar 1 to the end of your song, assign a trigger and enable liveloops.
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Arrgh sorry for all the comments! I promise no more now |
No problem! Keep 'em coming. We may not be able to implement much before JS2 but one can't have too many ideas or constructive criticism.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
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Hewitt Huntwork
Jam Meister
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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This whole thread is a perfect example of why I love Jamstix and think the way Ralph interacts with, and responds to his customers is second to none. </pointless gushing>
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Rock softly and carry a big stick. Wait, what am I saying? Don't Rock softly. - Rock Churchill |
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dto
Jammer
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It would be better if the blocks were named with the Rhythm name, so you don't loose track of where you are. |
I'm not sure if I'm imagining it the same way you are explaining it, but it seems like each block would have to take up quite a lot more screen real estate if it were to hold the name of the rhythm. Wouldn't there need to be a lot of horizontal scrolling to traverse the arrangement then as well?
The only thing I might have liked in the Arrangement tab would be the ability to rearrange where a rhyhtm sits in the list on the left, either by dragging it up or down or by selecting it somehow and using the up/down arrow keys. I kinda got used to this when I used to use FL Studio, as the Playlist allows you to move the patterns up and down by selecting a pattern and using the Alt+Arrow keys. |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dto wrote: | | The only thing I might have liked in the Arrangement tab would be the ability to rearrange where a rhyhtm sits in the list on the left, either by dragging it up or down or by selecting it somehow and using the up/down arrow keys. I kinda got used to this when I used to use FL Studio, as the Playlist allows you to move the patterns up and down by selecting a pattern and using the Alt+Arrow keys. |
Good idea!
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
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dto
Jammer
Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ralph!
I only mention it because when I'm creating something from scratch the arrangement tab can end up looking like a mess. Being able to rearrange the rhythms into a more sensible order when I'm done can make the arrangement look a lot more sensible and easier to follow. |
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Micromike
Junior Jammer
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good point DTO - naming blocks would mean more horizontal scrolling. I still find the current method just a tad cumbersome - but you're a fruityloops guy so I can see where you are coming from!
I'll try all those things out Ralph. Thanks for being so responsive. |
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