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JohnR
Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:30 am Post subject: A couple of questions - complete silence and MIDI analysis |
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I'm having great fun with the demo, with a view to buying the full product when it comes out so I'm really trying to understand how it works and have spent quite a lot of time fiddling with it. It looks like a really great product.
I've got a couple of questions:
1. When jamsitx is set to a silent rhythmn in the arrangement and isn't receiving any MIDI data it still insists on sticking a few ghost snares in, or a tom roll or something.
Its quite annoying when most of my tracks in Cubase don't start until bar 3 (to allow setup MIDI data to be sent) and I keep hearing the drummer messing around. I realise I could use the keyboard start/stop commands and click the start/stop button on the control panel, but this means I have to set it up every time I create a track.
Is there a tweak you can do which will stop the odd hits if there is no MIDI data and the arrangement is silenced at that point?
2. I thought that MIDI rhythmn data was analysed in freejam mode to produce a complementary rhythmn, so I tried playing straight 8's then changing to triplets. (I know there is a shuffle button, but I was experimenting). Jamstix didn't pick this up, so can you explain what sort of analysis it does on incoming MIDI data?
John |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: Re: A couple of questions - complete silence and MIDI analys |
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| JohnR wrote: | When jamsitx is set to a silent rhythmn in the arrangement and isn't receiving any MIDI data it still insists on sticking a few ghost snares in, or a tom roll or something.
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Thank you so much, John!! I was waiting for someone to ask that questions just so I can say: Hey, it's like a real drummer! They always have to throw one in or tinker around!
But seriously, we will fix this issue
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can you explain what sort of analysis it does on incoming MIDI data?
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Sure. Here it goes:
Jamstix analyzes the following factors:
- velocity, of which it does various things like max velocity within a certain time period, averaged velocity and others
- complexity (as in notes per tick or beat), which is used for some jam habits as well as for the 'inofficial' complexity tracking that I mentioned in another thread
- syncopation (as in density of notes on syncopated times), used for jam habits and 'inofficial' funkiness tracking
- harmonic analysis (chord), this is used to tie rhythm slots to specific chords/structures played around the 1 beat of each bar so Jamstix plays the same (or nearly same) rhythm combos as you repeat parts of your song.
- separation, used to detect staccato play or isolated hits used for jam habits
As you can see, Jamstix does not take triplets into account when jamming. In fact, the basic rhythm pattern is decided by the funkiness and complexity sliders as well as the style controls alone.
We experimented a lot with creating rhythms based on MIDI input and the results were interesting but not ready for a product that has to appeal to a wide range of players. However, it's still in the pipe for the future as we come up with some more tricks.
We will look into switching Jamstix in and out of shuffle based on density of key shuffle notes but I can make no promises that it will be in the upcoming release.
Thanks for your comments and suggestion and keep them coming!
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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JohnR
Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: Re: A couple of questions - complete silence and MIDI analys |
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Thanks for your quick response and description.
As a further comment, I seem to be finding that most patterns it comes up with are too complex and detract from the music. I am tending to keep the syncopation and complexity very low.
| Zauni wrote: | | I was waiting for someone to ask that questions just so I can say: Hey, it's like a real drummer! They always have to throw one in or tinker around! |
I find guitarists worse! I am currently going to a jazz improvisation class and you can guarantee that all night one of the five guitarists will be fiddling around - usually when our instructor is trying to teach something. Its extremely annoying. (I'm keyboards player who is very well behaved!  )
Keep up the good work. You've got my $99! |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: Re: A couple of questions - complete silence and MIDI analys |
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| JohnR wrote: | As a further comment, I seem to be finding that most patterns it comes up with are too complex and detract from the music. I am tending to keep the syncopation and complexity very low.
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You may have already done so but I'll mention it anyway: The accentuation slider and fill frequency add a lot of busyness of course and you may want to slide them down too.
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I find guitarists worse! I am currently going to a jazz improvisation class and you can guarantee that all night one of the five guitarists will be fiddling around - usually when our instructor is trying to teach something. Its extremely annoying. (I'm keyboards player who is very well behaved! )
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Yes, I met them, too 
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Ralph Zeuner
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JohnR
Jammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:37 am Post subject: |
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As a further question, when does the barprint get cleared (and what is it telling me anyway)? (Maybe thats two questions!)
I tried creating my own rhythm by putting jamsitx into manual jam, then adding notes as the video tutorial shows me. When I play the track the indicators on the barprint slowly rise to the top and jamstix doesn't play any rhythms, just lots of cymbal crashes. From then on, the barprint stays full, and I don't get a proper rhythm any more. It does this all the time even when I've pressed the "Silence" button on the rhythm tab and trying resetting the arrangement and everything!
At one point this behaviour seemed to happen immediately after a random audio drop out. Are these related?
John |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| JohnR wrote: | As a further question, when does the barprint get cleared (and what is it telling me anyway)?
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The bar print gets cleared right before each new bar. If the sequencer is not running, the bar will not advance and therefore the print won't get cleared. However, that has no negative effect. The bar print can be used to identify how Jamstix analyzes your input in situations where you feel there is a problem with that. We use it for that purpose during testing but for users it's rather just a visual effect.
| Quote: |
I tried creating my own rhythm by putting jamsitx into manual jam, then adding notes as the video tutorial shows me. When I play the track the indicators on the barprint slowly rise to the top and jamstix doesn't play any rhythms, just lots of cymbal crashes.
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When you switch to manual mode, Jamstix also switches on the PLAY INPUT button in the OPTIONS panel of the jam tab. This means that whatever is received at MIDI in is routed to the sound engine, making Jamstix a manual drum sound module. This could be the cymbal crashes you heard when you were playing; switch it off and see if that helps.
If you want to create a drum track as is shown in the 'How To Create Your Own Rhythms' tutorial (I am assuming that's the one you were referring to), you must have your sequencer running at all times as in the tutorial. Once you build the track (without playing), you can jam manually with it, which means it won't change its rhythms since you want your own to be used but it will adjust velocity and play jam habits.
Let me know if this helps. If not, let's go into more step-by-step detail
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Hewitt Huntwork
Jam Meister
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: A couple of questions - complete silence and MIDI analys |
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| JohnR wrote: | When jamsitx is set to a silent rhythmn in the arrangement and isn't receiving any MIDI data it still insists on sticking a few ghost snares in, or a tom roll or something.
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| Zauni wrote: | Thank you so much, John!! I was waiting for someone to ask that questions just so I can say: Hey, it's like a real drummer! They always have to throw one in or tinker around!
But seriously, we will fix this issue.
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I noticed this seems to happen consistently when the velocity slider is all the way up.
After playing with the demo, I was a little frustrated that even pulling down the probability sliders down didn't seem to take out 100% of the noodling. My opinion is that if you're in manual mode with the sliders all the way down, all you should be hearing is what you've told Jamstix to play, regardless of the position of the velocity slider.
Seriously, though, Jamstix is blowing my mind. I didn't expect the results of my tinkering to be so musical and useful. Can't wait to get the full version!
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Hewitt,
the Jamstix demo has two "jam habits" that are active at all times, even in manual mode. These will react to certain ways of playing. In the full version, you can toggle all jam habits on/off.
Also, we will release a new demo version in a few days that has a real mute button in the rhythm tab. That will shut Jamstix up all the way 
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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Hewitt Huntwork
Jam Meister
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Zauni wrote: | Hi Hewitt,
the Jamstix demo has two "jam habits" that are active at all times, even in manual mode. These will react to certain ways of playing. In the full version, you can toggle all jam habits on/off. |
| Quote: | | Also, we will release a new demo version in a few days that has a real mute button in the rhythm tab. That will shut Jamstix up all the way |
as ice!
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Rock softly and carry a big stick. Wait, what am I saying? Don't Rock softly. - Rock Churchill |
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Hewitt Huntwork
Jam Meister
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Zauni wrote: | Hi Hewitt,
the Jamstix demo has two "jam habits" that are active at all times, even in manual mode. These will react to certain ways of playing. In the full version, you can toggle all jam habits on/off. |
Hey, just thought of a couple questions... (1)Are there more than two jam habits in the full version, and (2)is there a list of them anywhere?
Many thanks.
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Rock softly and carry a big stick. Wait, what am I saying? Don't Rock softly. - Rock Churchill |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: |
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There are six in the full version and you can toggle them on or off. We may add more in maintenance updates as we go along.
1- Single accent hit with a random combo of kick, snare,cymbals and tom in response to single loud notes during quiet play (in the demo)
2- Accent hits with kick or snare and cymbal during loud hits or staccato play (in the demo)
3- Follow single note play with ride cymbal sometimes
4- Accentuate single notes below Bb0 with hits on Tom 5
5- Accentuate syncopation with kick and hihat
6- Auto-switch to shuffle and back
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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Doc
Moderator
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Jamstix becomes greater every day !!!!  |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Hi Doc, thanks for the praise! Jamstix is our baby and babies need to be fed and taken care of 
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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