Rayzoon Technologies LLC

heyjohn

I own a Roland Handsonic HPD-15 (Info, Manual), and have always wondered what Jamstix would do with some of these sounds.

It has about 600 sounds and 160 preset drum kits, and I don't fancy entering all the notes and such one-by-one in a GUI -- that's what perl scripts parsing manuals are meant for Smile

Is there some documentation for creating drum kits outside of Jamstix to help with the task? What type of file needs to be created, and what's the format?

Also, if anyone has general tips for using Jamstix with hardware sound modules, I'd love to hear them. For hosts, I own Tracktion 3 and Sonar Home Studio, although I use the former a lot more often.

This particular task is more of an experiment than a necessity -- I'll probably do some crazy stuff like having a MetalPak drummer play TalkingDrums and such, but who knows? Maybe something Really Cool will come of it... Smile

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Jamstix outputs MIDI so the easiest way to use it with a hardware module is to use a MIDI track in the host with input=Jamstix and output=port to hardware module. You can then adjust MIDI keys for the sounds in the kit editor as needed for your module, click 'MIDI Out Only' in the mixer (to avoid the internal sounds from loading) and save it as a custom kit.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

heyjohn · Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:

I note a distinct lack of file format information there Smile

I'll take that as "play around with the GUI, see how well you like the results... and then worry about additional kits composed of more of those 600 sounds"... Wink

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

Well, the standard internal kit is (mostly) laid out in GM format. All non-standard keys have to be mapped anyway so you might as well use the JS2 kit editor to assign the keys of your hardware module instead of vice versa. You don't need a file format/key layout for that. Nevertheless, we will add a keys PDF in the next update.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

heyjohn · Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:

I stared for a while at that answer, figuring there's a disconnect someplace... I think I can explain myself better now (but pardon me if I botch it again Smile

.

I want to use Jamstix to play the sounds contained in the HPD-15, which has more sounds (600) than keys (15), and which can (via midi) play a sound that's not actually mapped to a key.

So there will be a bunch of information like "Jamstix Tom 1 triggers HPD15 TalkingDrum3 on note C3" to be had, if I understand everything correctly.

That bunch of information is probably stored in some kind of mapping file -- and that's the format information I was after, so I can just cut-and-paste info out of the HPD15 manual to create some likely-good-sounding kits.

Right now, I'm not trying to trigger any Jamstix sounds by using the HPD-15 (or for that matter the MAudio TriggerFinger I have)... I think all the Jamstix drummers tend to be a good bit better than I am Smile

heyjohn · Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:20 am Post subject:

Hmm, something's odd... I have the Jamstix kick set to note F3, but according to MidiMonitor, I'm getting C10 out of it -- which explains why the HPD-15 is giving me a cymbal instead of a kick. (I'm playing with the stock Studio drumkit of the HPD-15 first, before I go for any weird kits -- and on factory settings; I made sure to reset before messing around.) Jamstix is version 2.1.4.

The snare is working fine, everything else is currently messed up, even though I used the "play this note" feature in Jamstix -- with the exception of notes that I don't currently have extra controllers for (pedals and triggers -- left those disconnected since I don't expect to need them with Jamstix making the sounds).

Not quite sure what's up at this hour, so I'll look at it sometime tomorrow (preferably before the Pats-Chargers game, go Pats!).

I suspected this would be an adventure... Wink

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

That sounds very odd. If the kick sound has MIDI key F3 in the kit editor of JS2 then there is really no way I can see that it ends up outputting C10. Something after JS2 must be altering the key or reporting it wrong.

I'm not sure what 'MidiMonitor' is but have you tried recording the MIDI output of JS2 in the host and then looking at the data there?
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

heyjohn · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:23 am Post subject:

MidiMonitor is a very basic VST diagnostic, available here.

Got a brief moment to play with things, and got some stuff working. I found that Jamstix and Roland have different ideas about the notes. The HPD15 manual will list A3 for instance, but Jamstix A2 plays the note.

Thus, on my previous attempt, I was probably playing a dead note for kick, and seeing one of the drums that I hadn't adjusted coming though on C10 or something -- I still don't know for sure where that was coming from.

There are some things I don't know how to get working -- the hi-hat, for instance. Basic sound is one key, but modulated by the pedal input (which has another note) to get open/closed sounds. Might not be possible with the current setup.

I noticed a few usability points in the Jamstix GUI. It'd be very helpful to be able to set all the MIDI output channels on the screen to (say) 10 at once, rather than clicking 10 times on the channel button for every sound on the screen. (Or am I missing something again?)

The note names are useful, but it would also be helpful to list their corresponding note numbers in the dialog. The main pads on the HPD15 are listed as notes 60 through 74, or C4 through D5. Additional inputs are 57, 58 (pedal, A#3), 77, 78, 79, and 59. That includes some funky controllers like the two ribbon controllers and the D-Beam, as well as 2 triggers (usually used for kick drums). Having the note values in the dialog might have saved me the confusion of the off-by-one (likely due to starting at 0, or not) A2/A3 stuff I experienced.

And it'd be a good bit easier to generate a file with the info (Jamstix use, Sound Name, Sound Note, Midi Channel, Output Channel, whatever else is needed) than to click a dozen or more times for each sound. Maybe that's just me, and maybe because I remember the days when mice were optional Smile

heyjohn · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:27 am Post subject:

I also tried to record the Jamstix Midi output, but didn't have any luck in Tracktion3 -- probably because I've never tried it before and didn't have time to look in the manual... I sent the Jamstix output to another track, and that other track's output back to the HPD15 so I could hear what was going on. Didn't see any way to arm that track without an input, so I put an unused audio input (also tried with midi) onto it, armed, and got a blank track when I recorded (even though I heard the HPD15 playing).

So I'll have to consult the manual and figure out the correct way to do it. It's certainly a useful thing to be able to do.

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

heyjohn · Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:03 am Post subject:

Another look through the HPD15 manual says that it recognizes CC#4 (FootControl) as well, for both transmit/receive. Hopefully I'll get a chance to try to make that work sometime this weekend.

Should I then set all the Jamstix hi-hats to the HPD15 hi-hat pad, and then look around for things involving CC4?

As well as, in the mean time, consulting my manuals again... Smile

Hopefully all the consulting/configuring will result in something cool and unusual -- or the next release of DFHS will happen, with support for the ezDrummer sounds, and make the whole adventure obsolete...

Ralph [RZ] · Site Admin Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 13332

heyjohn · Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:11 am Post subject:

Success! I now have the HPD-15 Studio kit working, being played by Jamstix2.2-beta5. The CC4 business works just fine for me with whatever settings Jamstix has chosen (I love it when zero-configuration works). I wound up assigning all hi-hat sounds to the HPD15's hi-hat pad, and the CC4 info from Jamstix got the open/close sounding believable. And the tip for setting channels by using groups made things a lot easier.

So what did I do after I got the basic stuff working? Installed MidiYoke, recorded Jamstix playing the starter Blues number, and then switched the kit to Indian-TablaIII. And wow, it was even more fun. Smile

(Other kits were... um, nothing that you'd really want to listen to...but hey, that's what experimentation is about.)

For standard sounds, I think I strongly prefer Jamstix2's, and DFHS/C&V, to the HPD-15 Studio-drum sounds. But I'm looking for a set of unusual sounds, and now I can use the set that I have; I'm thrilled.

Maybe now I can come up with a percussion track that'll have something to do with some odd instruments I received over Christmas -- a didgeridoo and a Turkish Ney. (I usually play guitar, but by training, I'm a clarinet player, and do fairly well on whatever form of woodwind -- or exceptionally simple brass -- you toss my way... Smile

I think the next thing I'll try to get working are the other synth units on the HPD-15 -- it has channels dedicated to percussion and to melody, so it'll be interesting to see what the Jamstix Percussion map can do with/for/to those.

And I'll still likely get the DFHS upgrade and a few ezDrummer soundsets when that's available... but right now, I've got a ton of new options to explore...

Many, many thanks!