Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[fester2000]

Your wish is my command, sir!

I may have overcooked this a bit - in the mp3 versions, there may be a tad too much comp and verb, but the point is to show the effect. This is from the beginning of an AIC song I'm working on with some other folks. The first section is w/o any effects whatsoever, and the second has the compression and verb going.

Recorded all in Reaper using the "Dry" kit, which I rather like a lot.

Again, I hope this is helpful to the Jamstix noobs like me! Thanks again for this incredible package, Ralph. Top notch!

Oops! I just noticed there's no way to post attachments -- Ralph, can I just send you the mp3? I don't have anywhere to put this and link to it. Or if another user would be willing to host the file, I'd be much obliged!

[Ralph [RZ]]

Sure, just e-mail them to me and I'll take care of it.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[Ralph [RZ]]

Here is a link to a comparison MP3 made by fester2000:

http://www.rayzoon.com/stuff/js_mix_example.mp3

First half is the untreated drum track first, second half is the processed version (parallel comp & verb).
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[ProfRhino]

Basic Drumsound Tutorial Pt.2

[Preparations]
Please make sure you're familiar with pt.1, we'll need those concepts again as we're going for even more control over individual kit pieces.
Set up a project exactly as described in pt.1, with G1 to G4 and the respective plugins and routing.
One exception though : Don't set up the sends feeding G2 and G3 yet.

[Setting up individual outs]
-- in the mixer window choose 8 outputs and ambience - "send to last".
-- You might have to reload JS to activate the new output configuration
-- in the center at the top of the kit window you'll see the output routing menu - choose the one at the bottom - 8 outs
-- depending on your host you might have to activate the extra outs, in C4 it's done in the VSTi rack.
-- Voila - if you look in your host's mixer, you should see each "class" of kit pieces (kick, snare, toms, hats, ride, crashes, percussion and ambience) having its own mixer channel, 8 in total.
-- From now on the sky's the limit as far as complexity goes, this is how I personally approach a typical "natural" rock- or pop kit, of course there are several other equally cool approaches.

[Routing and getting the basic sound]
-- the outs for kick, snare and toms go to G1 "Drums", the others including ambience go to G4 "Drums Complete".
-- next you can set up sends to feed G2 "New York" and G3 "Drum Room", but this time we'll use the sends from the individual channels so we can adjust what kit pieces get a "NY" boost (typically kick, snare, toms) and how much "Room" you'll apply to each channel (snare and toms more, kick and cymbals a bit less)
-- check if everything's going where it's supposed to, turn down the faders of G2 and G3 for now and save.

[Getting creative]
-- now you can EQ, compress and further treat individual kit pieces without affecting others.
-- next are some tricks and things I tend to listen for personally, ymmv massively.

[Kick]
-- a bit of compression to make it more "solid", followed by EQ.
-- You'll want to have dry punch relatively low down, however definitely cut the sub-bass below 40 to 80 Hz radically using a HPF (high pass filter) and a spectrum analyzer since your monitors probably can't reproduce those super low frequencies anyway, just like 95% of all other sound systems.
-- A bit of boost in the 2 to 5 kHz range to bring out the "beater kick" or "click" better might be in order
-- Finally we carve a hole in the low mids (200 to 400 Hz) so that the bass (guitar etc) gets some room to breathe
-- Bass and kick have to be approached as a team, two sides of the same coin

[Snare]
-- arguably the most important kit piece, worth some closer attention
-- again a generous amount of compression, followed by EQ and (optional) a dedicated FX reverb (anything is possible, room, hall, plate, inverse, gated) in the last insert
-- the snare verb should be seen more as an integral part of the sound than as an effect, affecting the frequencies as much or even more than the EQ
-- some folks add subtle distortion, one plug I like for that job is the free RubyTube (http://www.silverspike.com/?Products:RubyTube) - well worth a try !
With more extreme settings it can even replace comp and EQ in some cases - and I'm still talking about a "natural" drum sound, no lo-fi or trash in sight atm.

[Toms]
-- compression and EQ again
-- you want the toms to be anywhere between clearly audible and thunderous, but rather consistent in volume and "energy" from high to low - clearly a job for compression
-- more often than not I'm using a HPF to reduce some low frequencies and maybe EQ to control the "ringing"
-- a little bit of drum room if desired

[Hats & Cymbals]
-- not much to do here, mostly I just try to get the levels right and maybe apply a bit of HPF if that silvery sizzle is desired
-- drum room optional, not too much in most cases

[Ambience]
-- anywhere from untreated (swing) to extremely compressed (80s pop, metal)

[Filters]
-- it pays off big time to have good flexible filters, the best I've heard yet are from UA's Cambridge EQ, but do a search at kvr, there certainly are lots of freeware alternatives
-- You are looking for fixed filters, not the synthesizer type of time variable filter !

[Gates]
-- often used with live drums, rarely really needed with good samples like JS.
-- can control excessive ringing or sustain, especially for kick and toms, though I tend to use the damping control in the JS2 kit piece editor instead, sounds more natural to me
-- ringing can also be controlled by EQ amazingly well, just like the amount of the "snare wires"
-- the other purpose of gates in drum mixing is to control the bleed in the microphones, won't explain further here since that doesn't apply for JS' cleanly recorded samples

[NY compression]
-- If you're still not 100% happy with the punch you can dial in some NY compression, remember you can adjust it individually now since you have set up individual sends

[Tools]
-- it's a wonderful time to do recordings and mixes, there are so many fantastic choices for pro quality FX - maybe we can discuss commercial stuff in dedicated threads
-- some freeware that works fine imho:
Kjaerhus Classic, Voxengo, SlimSlowSlider, DigitalFishPhones, and there are lots more, check @ kvr

[Final thoughts]
-- of course this little article can only scratch the surface, and it can only describe my preferred way of working, I'd very much like to hear about your personal methods and tricks !
-- Maybe somebody could write a bit about getting a great jazz sound or how to get cool contemporary non-"natural" drum sounds for example?
-- if it sounds good, it is good
-- please don't think you'll have to do all this to get a decent sound out of JS, for many jobs I'm very happy with the way JS sounds right out of the box and only add a bit of verb and NY as in pt.1
-- the stuff mentioned here is meant for those occasions where you have to get the sound precisely right to fit a certain arrangement, know your options, know your tools !
-- obviously served with generous amounts of YMMV and IMHO !
-- most important, HAVE FUN !

Cheers,
Rhino

[fester2000]

Rhino --

I cannot express to you how helpful these simple tips have been for me as someone just learning about the recording process (been noodling on guitar for 25+ years!). I'm going to give these a spin as soon as possible, b/c I knew from the prior lesson that the toms and kick, in particular, need some solo treatment.

If I can, I'll also post the routing steps for those of us using Reaper.

Cheers to you, sir!

[ProfRhino]

Hi fester2000,
great if you found something useful !
Couldn't have said it better - all those tips can do is provide you with some ideas as a starting point for your own experimentation.
Most if not all of that stuff comes from adapting know how from various sources to my own needs anyway.
Reaper tips, as well as specific tips for other hosts will be very much appreciated !
Cheers,
Rhino

Btw, thanks for your audio example, sounds great, you certainly didn't overdo it !

[Anti_Luddites]

Excellent, many thanks again Prof.

Quick question:
Are ALL the sends 'Post Fader', which is the default in Cubase?

[politcat]

can someone translate this full setup (subgroups and all) to REAPER?

I tried and hit a deadend

[ProfRhino]

Anti_Luddites,
both pre- and post fader are options, but to me post makes more sense, when I turn down a fader of the kick I want its "sent to" FX to disappear, too.
Hope that helps,
Rhino

[ProfRhino]

politcat,
think of the signal flow in a real hardware mixer, that's where I'm coming from.
Don't know about Reeaper's specifics, sorry.
Cheers,
Rhino

[fester2000]

[Sid Chigger]

Professor, thank you! This is Most Helpful!!

I have a question regarding Tutorial Two.. I have 8 outputs selected in JS2.. But in Cubase 4.1 in the VST instruments box I can select 1,2,3, or 4 STEREO outs.. Where do I go to set it to allow 8 mono outs? or is 4 stereo what I should select??

Thanks - Sid
_________________
Main Rig: C5.5(32bit), Win 7 64, i7 970, 12GB, UAD2, FF800, JS3
Emergency Backup Rig: C5.5, WL6.1, Dell Core 2 Duo 6600, FF800, 1 UAD1, 1 UAD2 Duo, JS3

[Sid Chigger]

Ah Ha~~ Found it.. JS2/Options/Stereo Audio Outputs unchecked/OK.. Close JS2 and unload it from the VSTi rack.. Reload it and click the teeny little "button" and there are 16 mono outs.. Cool!!
_________________
Main Rig: C5.5(32bit), Win 7 64, i7 970, 12GB, UAD2, FF800, JS3
Emergency Backup Rig: C5.5, WL6.1, Dell Core 2 Duo 6600, FF800, 1 UAD1, 1 UAD2 Duo, JS3

[ProfRhino]

Hi Sid,
glad you found it !
Have fun,
Rhino

[lethe]