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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:13 am Post subject: About the user interface |
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Hi there,
after some time of inactivity, I launched Jamstix again today for - jamming of course 
But I'm still/again confused about the various jam modes and the many tweaking controls:
- in manual mode I can crank up the control panel sliders with no effect, but can change behaviour with the rhythm tab
- in free jam mode you can modify rhythm tab sliders but Jamstix sets them itself
- the manual says the control panel influences all three modes, but the text blocks about complexity and funkiness talk about free jam only. What about the other control panel sliders ?
Shouldn't controls be disabled if they can't do anything anyway ?
Maybe the controls could be grouped in another, clearer way.
Why separate windows for Jam Habits and Percussion (even more tweaking) ?
Don't get me wrong, Jamstix is a very special product, but IMHO, I think it could even get better concerning the user interface  |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: Re: About the user interface |
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| voodoochile wrote: | the manual says the control panel influences all three modes, but the text blocks about complexity and funkiness talk about free jam only. What about the other control panel sliders ?
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Accentuation, Cymbal Hits and Fill Frequency do not apply in manual jam. We could make it easier by hiding them.
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Why separate windows for Jam Habits and Percussion (even more tweaking) ?
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Well, Jamstix is all about tweaking
The percussion needed its own window because there wasn't enough room in the rhythm tab and it didn't have enough content to warrant its own tab. Jam Habits needed a lot of text to explain each habit so that required its own window. We are committed to using the screen real estate as efficiently as possible.
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Don't get me wrong, Jamstix is a very special product, but IMHO, I think it could even get better concerning the user interface |
No doubt we can improve the GUI and we will do so. I just think that a GUI is always a compromise once you reach a certain level of complexity.
Keep giving us your ideas and we'll see what we can do in future updates.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: Re: About the user interface |
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| Zauni wrote: |
Well, Jamstix is all about tweaking
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That's why I like it
| Zauni wrote: |
Keep giving us your ideas and we'll see what we can do in future updates. |
No problem. |
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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This is another one which causes confusion:
- in free jam, rhythm tab
- load any rhythm, let the host play, no problem
- switch to jam tab, push the funkiness slider, for example
- rhythm is replaced in background with a different basic rhythm called "Jam#0"
Rather irritating.
Different behaviour for manual jamming: pushing sliders leaves the rhythm alone (as it should).
So Jamstix works in various *modes* what is for most software not the best.
Maybe there should be more restrictions of the things you can do, respectively you should not be *aware* of modes or have the need to think about it.
Another small issue:
I just wondered why the internal sound engine keeps silent - I didn't start the separate setup after reinstalling windows, but there is no warning message anywhere. The load progress windows of Jamstix shows up as usual. |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| voodoochile wrote: | Different behaviour for manual jamming: pushing sliders leaves the rhythm alone (as it should).
So Jamstix works in various *modes* what is for most software not the best.
Maybe there should be more restrictions of the things you can do, respectively you should not be *aware* of modes or have the need to think about it.
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The Funk and Comp sliders control rhythm as well as accents/fills. In manual jam, they only control the latter. Now if I'm in free jam and I adjust the funk slider I'd expect the rhythm to change, wouldn't you? After all, that's what it is all about?
Now, we could have separate sliders for rhythm comp/funk and accent/fill comp/funk...
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I just wondered why the internal sound engine keeps silent - I didn't start the separate setup after reinstalling windows, but there is no warning message anywhere. The load progress windows of Jamstix shows up as usual. |
That's because some people knowingly run Jamstix this way because they always use external modules so an error message would not only be inconvenient but it would also be misleading since it isn't an error to run Jamstix without the samples.
If you sit down and analyze the situation, Jamstix has quite a bit of flexibility, which results in complexity. Especially the possible combinations of inputs and outputs, jam usage modes, sound generation modes etc. All of this must be done with serious screen estate restrictions and within the confines of the VST specs!
I'm just hesitant about messing with the workflow because we have many users that have become very comfortable with the way it works...
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Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Zauni wrote: |
The Funk and Comp sliders control rhythm as well as accents/fills. In manual jam, they only control the latter. Now if I'm in free jam and I adjust the funk slider I'd expect the rhythm to change, wouldn't you? After all, that's what it is all about?
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Well, then there is no use for loading rhythms in free jam ?
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Now, we could have separate sliders for rhythm comp/funk and accent/fill comp/funk...
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Yes, maybe.
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If you sit down and analyze the situation, Jamstix has quite a bit of flexibility, which results in complexity. Especially the possible combinations of inputs and outputs, jam usage modes, sound generation modes etc. All of this must be done with serious screen estate restrictions and within the confines of the VST specs!
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My honest respect ! I wouldn't like to do that...
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I'm just hesitant about messing with the workflow because we have many users that have become very comfortable with the way it works... |
Hmm, how many users do actually ask questions ?
How many people download the trial, don't understand what's going on and forget about it ?
Or how many people don't care that much about the rhythms ?
My experience is, that many people just don't ask.
I'm just talking from the point of view of a completely Jamstix newbie but experienced computer user and software developer - and my very own egoistic hope is to find Jamstix widely accepted and improved
Best regards |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| voodoochile wrote: | | Zauni wrote: |
The Funk and Comp sliders control rhythm as well as accents/fills. In manual jam, they only control the latter. Now if I'm in free jam and I adjust the funk slider I'd expect the rhythm to change, wouldn't you? After all, that's what it is all about?
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Well, then there is no use for loading rhythms in free jam ?
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Correct but there are little tricks possible with the current setup, such as modifying a free jam rhythm in the rhythm tab once it is generated.
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Hmm, how many users do actually ask questions ?
How many people download the trial, don't understand what's going on and forget about it ?
Or how many people don't care that much about the rhythms ?
My experience is, that many people just don't ask.
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I must agree with you on that.
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Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Zauni wrote: |
That's because some people knowingly run Jamstix this way because they always use external modules so an error message would not only be inconvenient but it would also be misleading since it isn't an error to run Jamstix without the samples.
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That's the way I use it. But you can still click "Internal" mapping if there are no internal samples and it takes some time to figure it out.
The audit button on the left of the mapping tab does not do anything for me, say, I don't here anything where the normal jamming works (BFD, tried snare, kick, hihat).
In Keyword Jam:
Loaded Jazz, for example. Opened arrangement tab, decided when to play which rhythm, clicked "use arrangement".
Well, my arrangement gets not played as the manual tells me I have to be in manual jam. Ok, but as long as the arrangement tab is open, I do *see* my arrangement, but actually here only the first rhythm. After switching to the rhythm tab and back, the arrangement has been reset visually.
More confusing, you can see names of the other rhythms flashing shortly on the upper title block as well as in the rhythm tab.
You dont understand the behaviour for the three jam modes in an intuitive way - people don't read manuals
Maybe there is no need for keyword jam anyway.
There are two ways to use Jamstix:
Let it create rhythms on the fly (free jam) or use predefined rhythms. Keyword jam is just a (good) way to select and load saved rhythms. But should there or, is there, any difference to manual jamming ? Don't think so. |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| voodoochile wrote: |
The audit button on the left of the mapping tab does not do anything for me, say, I don't here anything where the normal jamming works (BFD, tried snare, kick, hihat).
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Yep, it doesn't work with BFD and we haven't figured it out, yet. Works fine with anything else.
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In Keyword Jam:
Loaded Jazz, for example. Opened arrangement tab, decided when to play which rhythm, clicked "use arrangement".
Well, my arrangement gets not played as the manual tells me I have to be in manual jam. Ok, but as long as the arrangement tab is open, I do *see* my arrangement, but actually here only the first rhythm. After switching to the rhythm tab and back, the arrangement has been reset visually.
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There's a redraw bug in 1.1 that causes you not to see arrangement changes in free jam and KW jam if the arranger is open. Changing away and back to the arranger corrects the display. A fix will be available later today.
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More confusing, you can see names of the other rhythms flashing shortly on the upper title block as well as in the rhythm tab.
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I can't duplicate that. Could you give me a step-by-step including what host etc.?
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You dont understand the behaviour for the three jam modes in an intuitive way - people don't read manuals
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I see your point.
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Maybe there is no need for keyword jam anyway.
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It seems to be the least used mode and may be axed in the future.
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Keyword jam is just a (good) way to select and load saved rhythms. But should there or, is there, any difference to manual jamming ? Don't think so. |
Well, KW jam is more than that because it applies to jam logic just as in free jam so rhythms get assigned to MIDI input patterns and an arrangement gets built plus the fills etc.
I actually like to use with the 'Graf Zeppelin' bank and BFD, playing bass and feeling like Bonham is with me sometimes
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Zauni wrote: | | voodoochile wrote: |
More confusing, you can see names of the other rhythms flashing shortly on the upper title block as well as in the rhythm tab.
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I can't duplicate that. Could you give me a step-by-step including what host etc.?
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Cubase SL 3.0.2
At beat 1 of every bar you can see the name of the rhythm I set for a very short before Jamstix replaces it with the very first rhythm of the arrangement tab (keyword jam)
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I actually like to use with the 'Graf Zeppelin' bank and BFD, playing bass and feeling like Bonham is with me sometimes |
Ohhh yes !! |
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Doc
Moderator
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Just to chime in and to voice my opinion:
PLEASE KEEP THE KEYWORD JAM IN JAMSTIX!
You don´t have to use it if you don´t like it.
I use it all the time.
The longer I work with Jamstix the bigger gets my fundus of my own pre-programmed (and of course jamstixtisized ) rhythms, that once were only derivatives from the original included preprogrammed rhythms.
And while we´re at it: Please think of separate rhythm folders, please please Zauni...
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Doc wrote: | And while we´re at it: Please think of separate rhythm folders, please please Zauni...
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It's on the list
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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voodoochile
Jam Meister
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Hamburg, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Doc wrote: | Just to chime in and to voice my opinion:
PLEASE KEEP THE KEYWORD JAM IN JAMSTIX!
You don´t have to use it if you don´t like it.
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I didn't say that
Just want to understand what's going on. And the question is, how to present functionality. As i said before, modes are problematic.
Greetings from Hamburg |
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Doc
Moderator
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 663
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I was only referring to
your "Maybe there is no need for keyword jam anyway."
and Zauni´s "It seems to be the least used mode and may be axed in the future."
That would be a pity. 
Greetings again from Hamburg |
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Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I think we all understand each other. Voodoo is pointing out inconsistencies and points-of-confusion in the GUI, not advocating against KWJ.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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