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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: EZDrummer-like midi files for Jamstix |
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It's been a while since I made music and I'm just beginning to get going again. The last few days I read a lot about EZDrummer. Now I like the sounds that come with Jamstix (got a few drumpacks too), so buying EZDrummer is a bit too much, but I do like what I saw regarding the so called grooves: various styles with 40 grooves and all grooves have 20 similar variations (if I understand it all well). This makes it pretty easy to get going quick! I remember not using the midi-files from Jamstix a lot, which also had to do with the peculiar fantasy naming... I usually made my own patterns which wasn't too easy, at least not as easy as using EZDrummer.
Now I read you can import those EZDrummer midi-filesinto Jamstix, so JS can have it's way with them, adding stuff and so on. Now I wonder: is there something out there like that groove-part of EZDrummer, some sort of logically organized and GOOD SOUNDING midi-files that can easily be used by JS?
Little problem is I can't check out JS right now and see how it all works (and if may be remembering things not correctly) because I am waiting for Sonar 6 PE to be delivered. But I'd like to know what's possible now, so I will be all set and ready to go the day Sonar arrives!  |
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Susan G
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: EZDrummer-like midi files for Jamstix |
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Groovemonkee.com is a good source.
-Susan |
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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Hm, reviews on their site are from 2004 and 2005... a bit old. Pity there aren't any mp3-demo's. But as soon as I've got S6 PE installed I'll try some some of their midi-demo's. I can import them into JS and let JS humanize and randomize and improvise on them, right...? Are there files up to EZDrummer standards?
BTW WIll JS's own midi patterns still have those strange and cryptic names in JS2...? Or will they simply tell us what's 'inside'? The way it is now yo have to audition everything in order to find something (if I remember well). |
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Ralph [RZ]
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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We're trying real hard to get away from 'rhythm files' in Jamstix 2. It doesn't even come with any rhythm library. We encourage you to use the brain (style/drummer controls) in Jamstix 2 to achieve variations of the same rhythm.
However, Jamstix 2 will still allow import of Jamstix 1 rhythms (cryptic names and all) and also import MIDI clips. In fact, the MIDI import of JS2 is much more accurate than JS1 because of engine differences. Furthermore, JS2 also allows importing MID fills, which JS1 does not.
In JS2, you can import a MIDI groove and have it played by any of the built-in drummers, which affects timing, accents, fills and a lot of other habits.
Listen to this quick demo of the groove Pop&Rock Groove 01 Var D of EZDrummer imported into JS2:
http://www.rayzoon.com/stuff/js2import.mp3
The first section is the groove played without drummer model. The second one is with the 'James Stix' model (JS1 simulation), the third one is the 'Stewart' model and the last one is the 'Carter' model.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Groovy!  Now I am SURE not to get EZDrummer but some good grooves to go with JS2! This is exactly what I want: easy to use grooves with a almost human touch and lots of spontanious variations! (Also the arranger of JS2 will become what I hope it will be: a more flexible and even quicker way of getting things done that just dropping grooves into Sonar like with EZD.)
Is GrooveMonkee the only good one out there...? Pity you can't buy the EZDrummer grooves alone... |
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Susan G
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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>>Hm, reviews on their site are from 2004 and 2005... a bit old. Pity there aren't any mp3-demo's.<<
They have several free sample packs. |
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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Susan G wrote: | Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:55 pm
They have several free sample packs. |
| J van E wrote: | Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:58 am
But as soon as I've got S6 PE installed I'll try some some of their midi-demo's. |
That's what I meant.
Do you have those packs yourself, Susan, or did you just hear about them? |
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Susan G
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| J van E wrote: | | Susan G wrote: | Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:55 pm
They have several free sample packs. |
| J van E wrote: | Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:58 am
But as soon as I've got S6 PE installed I'll try some some of their midi-demo's. |
That's what I meant.
Do you have those packs yourself, Susan, or did you just hear about them? |
I have several of the full packs. The sample packs aren't demos in the usual sense of the word. They're not limited in any way, just subsets of the full packs. |
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J van E
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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, clear.
But you are clearly happy with them, right? Do you know EZDrummer? Are the GrooveMonkee files in the same league, so to speak (also in the way they are named and organized)? I have to say it's hard to find any other professional grooves, but maybe I am looking in the wrong places. It also isn't really clear to me how the GrooveMonkee midi-files are made (by real drummers or not). But maybe I'll have to click on every link on their site to get that info. |
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ProfRhino
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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J van E,
I do own the Groove Monkee country set and it's ok but not groundbreaking.
The EzDrummer MIDIs are a lot better but still relatively static compared to Jamstix.
Let me suggest two ways to get cool MIDIs:
1. Wait for JS2, it's not that far away anymore.
Play with it a little until you find a style and drummer you like and let it rip for 5 minutes.
Export the result to Sonar, cut it into convenient pieces (1, 2, 4, 8 bars) and save the bits you like with clever names.
2. Program the kick and basic snare for some patterns in Sonar (should not be too hard) and leave the rest to JS2. Again, you could export the result ...
Hope that helps,
Rhino |
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Susan G
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| J van E wrote: | Okay, clear.
But you are clearly happy with them, right? Do you know EZDrummer? Are the GrooveMonkee files in the same league, so to speak (also in the way they are named and organized)? I have to say it's hard to find any other professional grooves, but maybe I am looking in the wrong places. It also isn't really clear to me how the GrooveMonkee midi-files are made (by real drummers or not). But maybe I'll have to click on every link on their site to get that info. |
I'm not that big a fan of MIDI loops in general, so to say I'm "clearly happy with them" would be a stretch. I do have EZDrummer, and all of their grooves and Groovemonkee's are available in the browser, organized and named clearly. (If not, download EZPlayer for free.)
The GrooveMonkee clips aren't quantized, and I believe they were created by real drummers, but you can contact them for details. (Russ, the developer, is a very hands-on guy, much like Ralph is here.)
I like to see what's available in terms of MIDI loops, but I've never used one in a finished song.
-Susan |
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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| ProfRhino wrote: | J van E,
1. Wait for JS2, it's not that far away anymore.
Play with it a little until you find a style and drummer you like and let it rip for 5 minutes.
Export the result to Sonar, cut it into convenient pieces (1, 2, 4, 8 bars) and save the bits you like with clever names.
2. Program the kick and basic snare for some patterns in Sonar (should not be too hard) and leave the rest to JS2. Again, you could export the result ...
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Nice idea's! Although JS2 is still far away in my opinion... Even a week is too much, really.
In my last projects (beginning 2006) I used to make my own patterns and let JS take care of the small variations: I never really got used to making patterns in JS though (it never became convenient and easy to do). That's why I am looking for a quicker way to get a drumtracks. Importing well made midi files and letting JS do the rest seemed to be the best option.
But maybe setting up a VERY BASIC pattern and let JS do EVERYTHING else (which means letting go of control a bit) is a better way with more realistic and surprising results in the end (er... is this something only JS2 can do...?). Although this will require some change of mind for me... I always know where I want the kick and snare: I guess having to search through 1000's of midi grooves to find the one that has the basic strokes I want, takes a lot longer than setting up the kick and snare myself and let JS2 do all the thinking.
In the end all I want is to get what's in my head into the computer a little faster. I find that having to work on details (like each and every hi-hat hit) too much, hinders the flow and the joy of making music. I am not used to working with other musicians. I always did things on my own. Working with JS is in fact like working with another musician, a real drummer, so I guess I should let go of total control a bit more.
EDIT:
About that basic pattern and let JS2 do the rest: I just spend some time in the JS2 topic and read thois: "For example: with JS2 you can disable the kick and snare aspect of the brain, hand place your kick and snares in the bar editor and then have the brain add hats and accents. I know a lot of the power users will love that." So that's what you meant. Man, I really have a lot of catiching up to do: JS2 is looking even better than I ever expected! I would almost say I am happy to be out of music for such a long time, otherwise I would have spend all that time waiting and longing for JS2! Now it's only a month or so away. Lucky me. |
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ProfRhino
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 230
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| J van E wrote: |
In my last projects (beginning 2006) I used to make my own patterns and let JS take care of the small variations: I never really got used to making patterns in JS though (it never became convenient and easy to do). That's why I am looking for a quicker way to get a drumtracks. Importing well made midi files and letting JS do the rest seemed to be the best option.
But maybe setting up a VERY BASIC pattern and let JS do EVERYTHING else (which means letting go of control a bit) is a better way with more realistic and surprising results in the end (er... is this something only JS2 can do...?). Although this will require some change of mind for me... I always know where I want the kick and snare: I guess having to search through 1000's of midi grooves to find the one that has the basic strokes I want, takes a lot longer than setting up the kick and snare myself and let JS2 do all the thinking.
In the end all I want is to get what's in my head into the computer a little faster. I find that having to work on details (like each and every hi-hat hit) too much, hinders the flow and the joy of making music. I am not used to working with other musicians. I always did things on my own. Working with JS is in fact like working with another musician, a real drummer, so I guess I should let go of total control a bit more.
EDIT:
About that basic pattern and let JS2 do the rest: I just spend some time in the JS2 topic and read thois: "For example: with JS2 you can disable the kick and snare aspect of the brain, hand place your kick and snares in the bar editor and then have the brain add hats and accents. I know a lot of the power users will love that." So that's what you meant. Man, I really have a lot of catiching up to do: JS2 is looking even better than I ever expected! I would almost say I am happy to be out of music for such a long time, otherwise I would have spend all that time waiting and longing for JS2! Now it's only a month or so away. Lucky me. |
Looks like we have a rather similar workflow !
Don't get me wrong, JS1 is cool, but JS2 will be revolutionary imho.
While being able to do everything you could do in JS1, the way you interact with the program is a lot more "human" and intuitive, very much like explaining your song idea to a session drummer.
Disabling instruments in the brain does exactly what you're expecting.
Another cool thing is to choose an appropriate drummer and only disable the kick, chances are the snare playing will fit your song fine most of the time with the added bonus of some nice surprises (accents and fills).
All you might want to do later on is some basic editing to put an accent to a special position, remove or add some notes in special places.
You can do that in JS2 as well as in the host.
All in all I'm sure it will be worth the wait !
Cheers,
Rhino |
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J van E
Jamologist
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ProfRhino wrote: | the way you interact with the program is a lot more "human" and intuitive, very much like explaining your song idea to a session drummer.
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Right! Those better options sort of are the vocabulary you have to 'talk' to the virtual drummer. JS2 makes it a lot easier to 'talk' to the drummer and explain 'him' what you want, after which it will be easier to just let 'him' do 'his' things.   |
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