Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[audiotrax2000]

Hello, haven't been here in a while. Just wanted to drop in some feedback about my ever expanding drum sample library, and how I feel it compares to the internal Jamstix sounds.

A few months ago I bought the Korg padKontrol. It's an amazingly useful, touch sensitive unit (and worthy of a page all by itself), it also came with a minimized set of the DFH Superior program. For the most part, the drums are jaw-droppingly detailed and real. They sound like they're popping right out of the speakers. But after being blown away by the sound quality, I began to notice that they sound too thin, clean and light for my tastes. The interface is brilliantly done (if somewhat confusing to learn), and you can really build a lot of variety into the kits, but - the "sound" just wasn't cutting it for me.

Last week I just purchased the DFH Custom and Vintage set. Total improvement! These drums are thick rich and wooden, and sound like the "live" types of drums I like on old 70s records. Again, as with all the DFH library, the amount of detail and realism in the songs is incredible. This is much closer to "my" sound.

Seeing as how I am now completely out of control, as a drum samples junkie, I have also recently gotten the EZ Drummer kit, along with three of the expansion sets. All this is sheer fun to play with, and I'm not actually getting much music produced, but here are my bottom-line thoughts:

To sum up what I am looking for, my ideal drum set is actually very close to the sound of the drums on the Genesis "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" double album from the 70s. I like that "big ole wooden drums recorded at the back of the gymnasium", heart attack sound. It just carries so much emotion, without bleeding all the way into metal territory. Another favorite is anything recorded by John Bonham, although sometimes that can be a little TOO heavy for what I am doing.

So, I was lucky enough to discover Jamstix, which is the first program that is so usable that it's actually changed my musical life, and on top of it, it also comes with my favorite drum library that I have discovered yet.

After playing around with all my new toys, I have come to the decision that the Jamstix add-on library comes the closest to "the sound that I hear in my head", compared to anything else that's out there. Somehow the producers at Rayzoon, have managed to come up with something that oozes character, yet still has enough flexibility to be mangled around into fitting with many different styles.

I'm still shocked at how cheap all the Jamstix add-on packs were. If I didn't even use the software, the whole deal would be more than worth it just for the drum kit sounds. At the chance of sounding like I am "gushing" once again all over the software (AND I AM!) I just want to say thank you once again for providing these enormously great tools.

The bottom-line is: I COULD manage to do without the DFH stuff (although I wouldn't want to...) but I really COULD NOT see myself getting by without Jamstix at this point.

If anyone else would like to contribute their thoughts and opinions to this, it would be great to hear about it. Happy thoughts!

Kevin

[Dragonlips]

Good insights audio!!

I see you've mentioned DFH. I will say that BFD has recently started a wonderful partnership with Platinum Samples. You mentioned Bohnam. Platinums Samples just released a collection by Andy Johns. You might know him as the sound behind Bohnam. Although you won't know it by my rather over-processed sound in the thread on this forum, the AFJ collection is truly a work of art. He did the entire collection without using a single compressor. The tom and kick tonality is to die for. Obviously, there are other options out there to DFH, and even Jamstix when it comes to sounds. BFD with that collection would be a pricey investment for you, but I have to testify and state that those sounds are probably what you're looking for. That huge acoustic drum experience, with all of the richness and texture of the vintage kits of the 70's. There is a "candy swirl" Ludwig kit in that collection that is simply the tits!!

That said, I would never do without my Jamstix program. I don't care what sounds I'm using, my drums are always powered by Jamstix. Folks ought to win a nobel prize for creating that program!!!

I'll even do this. If you have a jamstix program arranged that you'd like to hear with any of those AFJ kits, you can email it to me and I'll post an unprocessed sample of those drums. For you, you have to hear them. You would appreciate them!
_________________
Metal Born Again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=372370

[audiotrax2000]

Hi Dragonlips,

Thanks for writing back. Yes, I just found out about that Platinum Samples page last week. I'd like to give them a shot, but reality has struck, and my software buying is gonna have to wait for a while. Especially since I still like the Jamstix kits I made, the best in my mixes.

That would be really cool if you could take a short file, and convert it to one of the sample kits you're using. I'd really like to hear that. I'm at work right now, so I'll try to grab a file and send it over to your e-mail tonight, okay?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Dragonlips]

NP- just email your drum arrangment to dragonlips2005@gmail.com. I'll put the links to the drums on this thread!!
_________________
Metal Born Again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=372370

[Dragonlips]

Thanks for emailing the track to me.

I plugged your midi file into sonar and tried out two BFD kits using the Andy Johns Classic Drum expansion.

To start: here is your test arrangment(you can download or play these by clicking at the bottom of the linked pages):
http://www.4shared.com/file/5662248/e3f357ee/jamstix__evm_ultrasonigue.html

Using your Jamstix midi file, I opened the AFJ Kit3 and played your midi file, here:
http://www.4shared.com/file/5662250/f433ee9d/afjdrumsamplekit3.html

There was nothing added to the drums as far as effects go. These are clean and dry!!
What drums are within Kit 3?? Great question! This is from the PS website:
Kit #3
Kick: Ludwig 14x24" Vistalite Candy Cane Swirl REMO Power Stroke 3 (beater), REMO Clear Ambassdor (front w/hole)
Snare: Ludwig 6.5x14" Vintage Clear Vistalite REMO Clear Black Dot
Hat: Zildjian A Series 14" New Beat (top)/Master
Sound (bot.)
Rack Tom 1: Ludwig 8x12" Vistalite Candy Cane Swirl REMO Black Dot (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Rack Tom 2: Ludwig 9x13 " Vistalite Candy Cane Swirl REMO Black Dot (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Floor Tom: Ludwig 16x16" Vistalite Candy Cane Swirl REMO Black Dot (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Crash 1: Paiste 2002 Series 18" Medium
Crash 2: Paiste 2002 Series 20" Medium
Ride: Paiste 2002 Series 22" Power Bell Ride


Next test: I took the same midi file and used Kit5. This time around I added some Ozone Compression to the drum bus to fatten the sound a pinch. http://www.4shared.com/file/5662249/94f46778/afjdrumsample2kit5.html

What is the Andy Johns Kit5?

Kit #5
Kick: DW Classic 14x22" Radio King (Reissue) Vintage Marine Pearl, wood beater REMO Coated Ambassador (beater), REMO Clear Ambassador (front)
Snare: Ludwig 5x14" Vintage hammered Chrome REMO Clear Black Dot
Hat: Zildjian A Series 14" Rock Hat
Rack Tom 1: Vintage 70's Ludwig 8x12" Psychedelic Swirl Red REMO Clear Pinstripe (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Rack Tom 2: Vintage 70's Ludwig 9x13" Psychedelic Swirl Red REMO Clear Pinstripe (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Floor Tom: Vintage 70's Ludwig 16x16" Psychedelic Swirl Red REMO Clear Pinstripe (top), REMO Clear Ambassador (bottom)
Crash 1: Zildjian K Series 19" Dark Medium Thin Crash
Crash 2: Zildjian A Series 17" Medium Thin Crash
Ride: Zildjian A Series 22" Ping Ride
_________________
Metal Born Again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=372370

[audiotrax2000]

OMG Dragonlips, am I impressed!

Thanks so much for all your thoughtful work here, posting those examples, and taking the time to break out the explanations of what the kits are.

In case anyone is wondering what I used for drums in the first sample (the one with the keyboard backing), it's a Jamstix kit I made from the expansion packs. To fatten it just a bit I'm using the PSP Vintage Warmer plug-in, and a little extra reverb. I had the internal ambience turned up pretty high inside Jamstix.

Those two Andy Johns Classic Drum kits really sound great! That's what I'm going after. Lots of meaty depth in that kick drum. Real tone, and real wood (plus... a digital brain.....

With some work I think I can get pretty close to those with my new DFH Custom and Vintage drums. Haven't had enough time to dig into them as much as I'd like, but there is an all Mallet kit in there that is to die for, (for atmospheric/mellow styles) and I haven't heard anything like it anywhere else. I think the C&V drums were worth it just for the Mallets.

Well, I feel a little more educated now thanks to your work here. The DFH kits are all amazingly detailed, but except for the Custom and Vintage kits, they all sound a bit too "perfectly radio ready" for me. They'd be great if I was producing for someone else. I'm in a different space, and am looking for a much darker, gritty, kinda imperfect drum sound. The Andy Johns BFD kits are very tempting to me indeed. I'll have to do some saving for a while (and keep this software spending under cover from my partner) or it will hit the fan...

Thanks again Dragonlips. I look forward to hearing more examples of your work. Please let us know which ones use the BFD/Andy Johns kits in the future - I'm really curious to hear more.

Good stuff!

Kevin

[thomasross20]

I'm looking to *possibly* get some heavier drum sounds from jamstix... Is it true I can get some sounds from BFD or something, and plug them into jamstix?? Will jamstix control the velocities and whatnot? Thanks!

[Dragonlips]

To answer your questions in short, 'yes' and 'yes'. Bfd can operate in standalone vst or dxi, or you can run it imbedded into jamstix. I personally don't run it embedded, but I have tried it and it does work as advertised. In order to use BFD with jamstix, it must be purchased though. I have 3 expansion packs and the original bfd program(which is required). I have pretty close to 30 drum kits for bfd. Even a few tasty mallet and brush kits too. BFD DLX is their rock expansion. Some really tasty stuff in that collection. There is a huge double bass ludwig vista kit, a 'prototype' backyard drum kit, and a cool Yamaha custom kit. Bfd is my preferred choice for drums because you'll get a natural sound that you can tweak to your heart's content. When you listen to that first dry AFJ samples you really hear the overtones of the snare come through. There is a vintage warmth that comes through in Andy's production, I almost feel guilty putting any effects on his drums. Alas, I'm into my own brand of metal, so I tend to overprocess my skins.

If anyone has a midi track and they'd like to hear any of the kits in my collection, just say the word. Swapping kits only takes a second. I have the BFD, DLX, XFL and Andy Johns expansions.
_________________
Metal Born Again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=372370

[prosodio]

I bought platinum samples too, and I´m amazed how good they are. You can get very good sound without eq or compressing. When I listen those old records, now I can get very similar sounds, with a lot of punch. For me, best drum samples of the market, no doubt.

Greetings

[Dragonlips]

I agree pro! I just can't get over the sound Andy Johns was able to get without a single compressor. He used nothing more than Neve 80 console and a Studer 800 24 track.......and a zillion years of experience gained from working with all of the greats!!

The highlight from this collection for me has to be the toms. The kicks are strong, the snares are authentic, but the toms are just show stoppers!! I also love the video that comes with the last DVD where AJ shares a ton of recording tips!!

AFJ ROCKS!!
_________________
Metal Born Again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=372370

[prosodio]

Yes man, listen to that snare2 eko room (black beauty) in dvd 2, you don´t even need to put a reverb on it. And what about cymbals/hats??? They are great!!! Now, I tend to word all along with jamstix and BFD stereo, I don´t feel the need of working with BFD all or ultra. Kicks... I like ludwig vistalite (dvd3) with ambient at twelve o´clock, maybe a little damping, maybe not... it depends on the song. I prefer spending my time in composing music that taking a lot of hours mixing drums to get AFJ sound, and even after all that hours I neve get close to Andy´s pack. Say it again, you have to try it to belive, all we can say here is not enough. Jamstix and this pack has solved my drums work.

Greetings