Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[Doc]

Well it´s a matter of taste really.

If you like to work with loops then you´ll be better of working with EZ- Drummer and its loop-based library anyway.

Personally I think working like this will be quite redundant very soon, but well, to each his own.

The quality of the samples by Toontrack is very high (I own DFHS myself) but this is not the question here.

What I don´t get but really want to understand is: What is it that keeps you from getting something accomplished with Jamstix?

[THERAKED1]

This may or may not be the proper way to play, but listening to a drum groove is what really inspires my guitar playing. I jammed with my buddies for about five years, and they just weren't that good, not that I am, but they never practiced or tried to learn to play songs. So if I was trying to play a cover tune, they could never make it fit, or if I was just grooving on a riff it wouldn't work. The only way we could ever get going was to let the drummer do his thing and then I would cop a groove to his, and then the bass would just do whatever, it was ok, once it got going, but it was certainly not the right way. We weren't a band, just great buddies that were hanging out and getting drunk anyways, so jamming was a side note, I wished it was more, but I knew early on that it'd never be, they weren't into it like that. I haven't jammmed with my friend in over a year, it's just not worth the hassle of hauling around my gear, just so we can get drunk and make noise.

Now, after five years of doing it that way, I kind of need a drum track to get me going. I do come up with my own grooves and riffs, but when I try to find the right drum pattern to match it, it just takes forever, so long that I either lose interest or run out of time. If I do find what I'm looking for, or something close, I always have to change what I was originally doing to fit the drum groove that I found, so what was the point!

When I first started working with computer recording, I was using .wav loops, and I used this perverted way of doing things. I'd play the suggested "verse loop", and quickly come off with a groove or riff that I could easily build a song around. The loops were in "song folders", so I'd just pick the "chorus loop" and then go from there. The .wav loops were easy enough to build a solid track, but I was limited to what was offered, and any tweaking after that is a headache, if at all possible.

Now, I have JS, and I really dig it, I do, but thanks to my backwards way of doing things, I just can't seem to make it work. I shuffle through the rhythym library auditioning patterns for what seems hours on end. If and when I do find something that gets me going, I don't no how to, or understand how to create other patterns for the song. I've tried adding other patterns from the keyword list, but they almost always don't fit or just inspire their own groove or riff, of which, I'm equally incapable of expanding upon.

I know what you must be thinking, and I'm sure what your answer will be, "Just quit, because you suck!", please spare me that, I hate myself enough already.

No one ever said that this would be easy, but I guess that that is what I'm looking for, something that is insipiring, and simple enough to create quick drum tracks, and then have the ability to make the adjustments that midi offers. The EZD looks like it fits this bill.
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T-bonesplace.com

[Doc]

Hey, I don´t think you suck!

CAN PLEASE SOMEBODY CHEER THIS GUY UP?


But please, are you really seroius? You say you can´t get Jamstix do something that inspires you?

[Ralph [RZ]]

On the mapping controls: Jamstix 2 will have a spreadsheet-style mapping view where you can fine-tune mappings much faster.

On EZD and JS: EZD is an awesome drum sound module with a library of drum patterns. It does not have a rhythm generator, an arranger, layering, limb control and all the other stuff JS offers.

You can drive EZD with JS just as you can with BFD, DFHS etc. but you cannot feed JS the MIDI of EZD to vary/humanize it. JS is rule-based, which explains why it can be flexible wheras EZD has a static loop library.

THERAKED1: there are many users like you who work groove-based and get the most out of JS because it allows quick variations and the arranger is literally 'click click' to assemble a complex track.

The key is to use 'manual jam', find the groove(s) you want and load them in the arranger slots. Now simply click what groove you want in each bar and add some fills...done.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[THERAKED1]

I got it, thank you. I only work in the arranger, in manual jam mode. I don't know what it is, perhaps if the library were arranged in a different way, so that I could preview them differrently.

I mean no disrespect, JS is awesome, I really do love it! I think that it's just me, which is why I had stated that I suck!

I do understand how to use the program, just not how to build drum tracks. I have read in another forum somewhere, a person said that JS looks like an airplane cockpit, which is funny, but kinda true. Once you learn the basics of what each page does, it's not that hard to figure out, which is why I get so upset with myself. I'll just keep trying.
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[audiotrax2000]

Hey TheRaked 1,

You don't suck. Getting started on an idea when sitting alone with your computer CAN be frustrating. I feel that way too sometimes.

One of the things I immediately liked about Jamstix was the interactive way it threw ideas at me, to get me past a rut. Like the logo says: Just play with it.

Sometimes it's hard because the tools we use with computers nowadays can easily do the opposite of creativity, and trap you in a closed loop that goes round-and round.

Jamstix is one of the only pieces of software I've encountered that works the opposite. It responds to what YOU are doing.

I've also learned a few good tricks over the years that help me to keep an upper hand with the computer trap:

1. Try to compose a basic idea AWAY from the computer, until it has gelled a bit.

2. Your mind has an endless ability to come up with fresh, spontaneous ideas easier than you might be able to actually "play" on an instrument. We all tend to get very used to playing in certain shapes and patterns. Breaking out of that can be very hard. Try composing into the computer using just your voice while listening to a click track (or a groove from Jamstix).

3. After you get something you like, break it down and learn it on the guitar. You'll be amazed at how "natural" some of your melodies and phrases can sound, when approached this way. It will also help you to develop your own style as a player.

4. Don't try so hard. Just relax and have fun with the process!

Kev

[THERAKED1]

Thanks for the the tips! I think that I just need to relax and not put so much pressure on myself.
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[paspallum]

No offense to anyone who's posted on this thread... but isn't it getting a bit off the topic?

Paspallum

[THERAKED1]

Sorry, wasn't my intent. My vote is yes, for a better visual interface.
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[DaveBoulden]

I vote a resounding "YES" for the matrix layout of the mapping screen. I understand peoples worries about flashy graphics, it's not the flashy graphics that are needed but rather a more informative and user friendly layout... as someone else said, it helps to avoid interrupting the flow of creativity.
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[Ralph [RZ]]

Workflow is a major concern. Jamstix has WAY more controls than your average softsynth/effect and flashy graphics get in the way and waste lots of screen real-estate.

However, we'll try to find ways to balance this in future releases and add some eye candy, especialy where it is functional as in a graphical drum set representation that shows drum usage as JS plays.

So, you'll be able to click on drum icons OR use the spreadsheet editor.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[paspallum]

One thing that would be really cool and helpful is:

In the output tab there are four channels.
And of course we can assign any parts of our jamstix kit to route out through these 4 channels in the mapping page.

It would be great if we could type in the name of what is on each of those channels so when we want to add, change or remove the compression, or turn the volume up or down... it is easy to see a name of what is on each of channels.

And yeah, I know, We can do this in our sequencer... but we are not looking at our sequencer when we are trying to change the Jamstix internal compression setting (or turn it off so we can use a plugin compression in our DAW)... no..we are looking at the jamstix output page visual interface!

Paspallum

[Ralph [RZ]]

Good idea, Paspallum.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[paspallum]

Ralph
I'm pretty sure you have already said in this thread that you are going to address this issue... but it wasn't clear to me exactly what you meant... so I'll suggest it in my words...

As far as the visual interface goes... one thing that really slows me down is when I want to change a kit piece... usually it is a snare that I want to quickly change (From the Snarepak)

In the mapping page I have to locate the kit piece in the 'sound' slot and then go to the sample slot and scroll down all of the kit pieces (cymbals, percussion, kick, etc) to find the snares.... and then each of the snares appear three times... as a hit, as a bounce and a rimshot... and they all look really similar in small text... (sometimes in haste I mistakenly select a bounce for the main snare sound... and that gets confusing!)

I know that if I select the (correct) snare hit.. it will 'collect' the rest of the hits for that snare.. that is cool...

But all that scrolling and three sets of names for each snare is pretty long winded... some quick visual way to easily access kit components would be a really cool way to 'flick' from one snare to another... to 'audition' various ones in the context of a pattern or arrangement.

Paspallum

[Ralph [RZ]]

Yes, that is where the spreadsheet-style editor will makes things much faster as you can see and edit multiple sounds simultaneously.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com