| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:42 pm Post subject: Snare Pack?? |
 |
|
Ralph
Still loving my DP#2 snare and drumkit. (I always will.. it's timeless and classic!)
I loaded up a nice arrangement today (jamstix... not floral) and had it grooving along with my DP#2... then for a test... I left the rythyms and arrangements as they were but switched the output to BFD...
The first thing I noticed is that the BFD snares all sounded out of phase...
I've always thought the phase of the BFD snares was a bit wrong (just a bit) .....but in direct comparison with the DP#2 snare... well the DP#2 snare sounds way better!... more meaty.... richer and more phase coherant!
I noticed a few weeks before X-mas a post where you were talking about what snares you are planning for the first Jamstix Snare pack release.
Can you tell us in more detail yet what types of snares and roughly how many might be in the snare pack?
I would be VERY interested in purchasing more well recorded, detailed, warm sounding 'phase-coherant' snares like the ones in DP#2.
Also.... one thing that never gets much mention with Jamstix is the amount of processing power it does eat up... especially with the DP#2 ambient samples loaded...
I have a Dual Athalon 2.8GHz PC with a GIG of Ram... and jamstix does start to crackle and burp a bit when you use a busy pattern...
This is not really an issue for me.... as I can just adjust my soundcard buffer back to a slower latency... and I'd rather have good sounding drums than have to make a compromise on sound quality..
But I know BFD do make a big fuss 'confessing' that BFD is processor and RAM hungry... I think Jamstix and BFD use the CPU, Hard-disc and RAM differently (don't they?) but I think BFD is only 'slighty' more hungry on my particular system than Jamstix loaded with the ambient DP#2.
Anyway.... I love the JAMSTIX and look forward to more Snare samples!
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
darcyb62
Jamologist
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 188
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Snare Pack?? |
|
|
| paspallum wrote: | Ralph
Also.... one thing that never gets much mention with Jamstix is the amount of processing power it does eat up... especially with the DP#2 ambient samples loaded...
I have a Dual Athalon 2.8GHz PC with a GIG of Ram... and jamstix does start to crackle and burp a bit when you use a busy pattern...
This is not really an issue for me.... as I can just adjust my soundcard buffer back to a slower latency... and I'd rather have good sounding drums than have to make a compromise on sound quality..
Paspallum |
Hey Paspallum, I've been noticing the processing requirements lately as well (2.8 athlon as well). I have been able to get a bit of headroom by increasing latnecy but I've still run into problems with CPU utilization. To work around this issue I would typically freeze the track, but with tracktion as my DAW and since there is no clip per se on the Jamstix track, the "Freeze" function in Jamstix doesn't really work, so what I have been doing is exporting the Jamstix tracks to wav the importing them back in. Not the ideal workflow but it does get the cpu back down to a more managable level. I've also been considering replacing my USB soundcard, with a PCI card. Although it will still be asio, I've heard that USB asio is not the friendliest implementation of asio on the cpu.
Cheers...
_________________
darcyb62 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
You can make the freeze function work in many hosts by adding a dummy event (controller etc.) at the start and the end of the song in the Jamstix MIDI track.
Concerning CPU usage: you can significantly reduce Jamstix CPU consumption with the voice reduction slider in the mapping tab. Jamstix has a complex algorithm for sound removal unlike the static release time of a typical sampler. It is designed to maintain a more natural 'build up' of sound elements as it occurs in real drums. This costs CPU cycles and you can see that by looking at the LOAD display which equates to polyphony of a standard sample player.
You can often move the voice reduction slider far to the right without any noticable quality loss in a given mix. Make sure to use beta X8-10 as it has some modified voice reduction code.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
darcyb62
Jamologist
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 188
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zauni wrote: | You can make the freeze function work in many hosts by adding a dummy event (controller etc.) at the start and the end of the song in the Jamstix MIDI track.
Concerning CPU usage: you can significantly reduce Jamstix CPU consumption with the voice reduction slider in the mapping tab. Jamstix has a complex algorithm for sound removal unlike the static release time of a typical sampler. It is designed to maintain a more natural 'build up' of sound elements as it occurs in real drums. This costs CPU cycles and you can see that by looking at the LOAD display which equates to polyphony of a standard sample player.
You can often move the voice reduction slider far to the right without any noticable quality loss in a given mix. Make sure to use beta X8-10 as it has some modified voice reduction code. |
I'll try putting the dummy stuff on the track, but the feeeze function isn't all its cracked up to be anyways.
Regarding cpu utilization, I would much rather keep the realism aspects in at the cost of cpu utilization. As I'm working through song structure I will often use the voice reduction to save CPU but as it evolves I slowly this and other VST's used as I get closer to the final cut.
So my comment on cpu utilization wasn't really a complaint, but more of a comment as to how I work around that issue. If it was a really big issue, I would just upgrade my cpu.
Cheers...
_________________
darcyb62 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Snare Pack?? |
|
|
| paspallum wrote: | Can you tell us in more detail yet what types of snares and roughly how many might be in the snare pack?
|
Current plans call for 11 snares as follows:
14"x5.5" Slingerland Brass
13"x3.5" Mapex Deluxe Maple
13"x3.5" Pearl SensiTone Custom Alloy
14"x4.0" Premier Modern Classic Maple
12"x5.0" Pork Pie Little Squealer Maple
10"x7.0" Pearl Popcorn Maple
14"x7.0" Tama Rockstar
14"x5.0" Vintage Stewart Maple
14"x5.0" Yamaha Birch
14"x6.5" Gretsch Club Rock
14"x5.5" Gretsch Birch with Kevlar head
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:27 pm Post subject: WOW!! |
|
|
Ralph
that is such a wide ranging set of vintage and modern snares!
MORE than what I would have thought you would be aiming at!!
I'm Impressed greatly!
I'm so happy with that line-up.... including Two Gretcsh kits!
And shells made of maple, birch, brass and Alloy! Now that is what creates a selection!!!
Is the slingerland brass like a Ludwig Black Beauty?
My wish list would also have a 'Ringo' Ludwig snare and a Ludwig Black Beauty. (The Black beauty really does have a detailed thick and warm character without being overly bright sounding - fits in a mix really well)
Does this broad range of snares have an even broader range of attributes?
Buy this question I mean: Is one or two snares tightly tuned and some loosely tunes... other moderately tuned?
A few with the snare wires thight and other swith loose rattly snare wires?
As this is what makes a 'selection' (or collection) really versatile and useable....
What I mean buy that satement is that you could get a 4 snares, with different shells, one brass, one maple, one steel and one birch... and if you set them up similarly with respect to using the same skins and tuned them closely to match each other as possible and mic'd them identically... they would have a subtle distinct character that would come though as individual.... but it really would be quite subtle.... changing the tunings and skins and the amount of rattle present from the snare wires...THAT would make a better and broader selection to my way of thinking... it'd make them each distinct...
Then I would tend to say "Hey I know what this track needs... it needs the Gretsch rock club snare... or it needs the slingerland brass!"
They need to be so different and distinct sounding that they become recognizable by their sound alone... and then they can also be used over a broader range of styles, moods and feels!
I mean the idea of a snare back is something I really embrace... but of course (as you probably realize) having 10 snares that are ALL pyschically DIFFERRENT but really end up sounding ALL THE SAME is not much point... but I think you would be onto this fact as you are a genius with drums!
Anyway Ralph
I WILL definately buy this snare pack.... I would order today if you had it finished!
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: WOW!! |
|
|
| paspallum wrote: | Is the slingerland brass like a Ludwig Black Beauty?
|
The Slingerland is heavy and with a full sound. We are recording it with a Fibreskyn head which underlines that character.
| Quote: |
My wish list would also have a 'Ringo' Ludwig snare and a Ludwig Black Beauty.
|
We have a plan for individual snare paks where each pak models a single snare but with a wide variety of configurations (head, tuning, snare tension). We are hoping to do this for the Black Beauty and the Radio King.
| Quote: |
Does this broad range of snares have an even broader range of attributes? Buy this question I mean: Is one or two snares really tightly tuned and some loose tunes... a few with the sanre wires thight and other swith loose rattly snare wires? As this is what makes a 'selection' (or collection) really versatile and useable....
|
A lot of this is a subjective thing. When I set up a snare I feel as if there is a specific set up that it 'wants to have'. Most of the time this ends up being a higher tuning. Some snares in SP will have a lower tuning. Same goes for snare tension. There is generally a sweet spot of just the right amount of buzz. Some snares 'feel' better to me with a tighter tension (especially small or shallow ones) and others with less tension (especially deeper snares). So as a result of the wide range of snares in the Pak you do get different tunings and tensions.
| Quote: |
having 6 to 10 snares that are ALL pyschically DIFFERRENT but really end up sounding ALL THE SAME is not much point...
|
Don't worry. These snares all sound quite different.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: Snare kit |
|
|
Ralph
when you said :
| Quote: | | We have a plan for individual snare paks where each pak models a single snare but with a wide variety of configurations (head, tuning, snare tension). We are hoping to do this for the Black Beauty and the Radio King |
THAT Really got me interersted, yip THIS is what I want. Your kicks and Toms already sound fine enough... snares, snares, snares... thats what I'm into (if you haven't guessed already!)
The individual snare pak sounds PERFECT... instead of having a pak full of hihats and toms and snares (etc) you get just ONE beautiful snare that you personally can choose different head, tuning and snare tension!
Ralph, you are making my dreams come true!
I presume Jamstix would have to be updated so that you could very easily load up these snares with just a click or two?
I know this is a terrible question to ask... but how far away would these individual snare paks be? Two months? Six months?
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Snare kit |
|
|
| paspallum wrote: | I presume Jamstix would have to be updated so that you could very easily load up these snares with just a click or two?
|
This is already implemented in the latest beta with the 'Auto Load' option on the sample list box.
| Quote: |
I know this is a terrible question to ask... but how far away would these individual snare paks be? Two months? Six months?
|
Absolutely no idea at this point  Naturally, the sales numbers for the SnarePak will have an impact on priorities. Low numbers will delay the individual snare paks.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: can't wait |
|
|
Ralph you wrote:
| Quote: | | Absolutely no idea at this point Naturally, the sales numbers for the SnarePak will have an impact on priorities. Low numbers will delay the individual snare paks. |
Does this mean that you will do the snarepak with those 10 snares and if that sells well... then you'll move onto the individual paks?
Maybe you should run a poll to see whether people want a pack of 10 or individual paks that are in themselves more versatile?
I posted a post last year asking jammers if anyone of them would be intersted in a classic Snare Collection (much like what you are proposing now) and I had not ONE single reply! Not even anyone telling me it was a dumb idea... just nothing!
Ralph... I'm not rich.... I don't even work.... (through illness) and have no insurance or government help.... my income is ZERO... my wife works... andway..I'm not rich... but I tell you... I'd buy the Snare Pak and every vintage or classic individual pak that you release.... I'm THAT impressed with your work!
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The actual SnarePak sales numbers (not polls) will determine the priorities of the single snare Paks.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: 1000 |
|
|
Well Ralph
Some of us might have to buy 1000 snare paks each if we want the individual paks to come into production!
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paspallum
Grand Master Jam
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Auckland New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: how long? |
|
|
Ralph
How long until the snarepak #1 set is due out?
Is it in production?
Is there a release date that you are working toward?
Paspallum |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ralph [RZ]
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 13332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
February is the target.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil Fee
Jamologist
Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 105
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zauni wrote: | | February is the target. |
Sounds like a priority purchase 
Can you shed any light on the recording method used for Jamstix kits and the coming snares for the direct and ambient sounds?
Do you use a whole kit's worth of mics (eg spill onto the direct kick and tom and hat mics and room/OVH for the ambience? This approach gets the response of the whole kit to each hit of course.
The other approach is just direct mics (top and bottom) for the snare with a pair or more of ambience mics to pick up the room response. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
