Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[J.W.]

I've been looking for a hihats triplets rhyhm in JS, really four hihat triplets over a slow 4/4 beat.

Examples of songs using this beat are,
"Everbody Hurts" by REM's
"Love In Vain" by the Rolling Stones
"Red House" by Jimi Hendrix

I've tried using the Triplets keyword and sometimes it works, then it seems to slip off into another indeterminate rhytm.

I should think this is a common rhythm to use - is it likely to be resolved better in a later version of JS? (Or have I just not found the right setting..?).

JW

[Ralph [RZ]]

"Everybody hurts" and "Love in vain" are 6/8, not 4/4.

Here's a rhythm file that you can unzip into your 'rhythms' folder and then load into Jamstix with your host running in 6/8 sig.

http://www.rayzoon.com/ehurts.zip
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

Thanks will check out the file

JW

[J.W.]

Ralph,

I've tried your 6/8 rhythm (ehurts file), but JS seems to play a bit of 6/8, then prolongs the bar into a bit of 4/4, then kind of flicks between the two, and generally gets confused over the beat (and fills). Is this because JS is mainly only suited for 4/4?

I've been thinking that a shuffle beat is very similar to 6/8 time, see below. The vertical bars are, alternately, the kick and snare; and the h's are the hihat beats, which are NOT played in the shuffle example where there is an underscore _. (Hihats are played simultaneously with the kick and snare of course).


6/8 :-

| h h | h h | h h | h h |

.....1 bar....


4/4 shuffle (similar to 6/8 ) :-

| _ h | _ h | _ h | _ h |

............1 bar.............


(There maybe a difference in tempos involved when comparing, i.e. one of them is in half-time as compared with the other).


Based on this, I'm wondering if you might easily be able to implement a 6/8 option, that's also selectable like the Shuffle beat option. And actually, probably all of the Shuffle Beat's jammed fills would altomatically work with the 6/8 time signature! Possibly you have much of the coding in place to implement a 6/8 option...?

Thanks

JW

[Ralph [RZ]]

I don't see the problems with 6/8 that you are reporting. Could you send me an example project file?

I'll see what we can do about doing the 6/8 hihat pattern in 4/4 shuffle.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

Hi Ralph

I've realised that my host wasn't set to 6/8 sig. Unfortunately, SAVIHost and MiniHost, which I'm using, don't allow you to change the sig, so I'm kind of stuck.

Anyway, hope you can at some point implement what I think would actually be a 12/8 rhythm (4 x triplets) onto the the 4/4 shuffle rhythm.

So many songs like "Everybody Hurts", the end part of "I Want You/She's So Heavy" by The Beatles, Janis Joplin's version of "Summertime" wouldn't be the tunes they are without 6/8 (or 12/8 )...so please...maybe in the next version or two?

Thanks

JW

[Ralph [RZ]]

We'll see what we can do about the 6/8 hats over a slow 4/4. Extended odd time sig support will be in future JS versions.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[Ralph [RZ]]

I just realized the solution was there all along: Use a slow 4/4 and set all HH+ events to '3let-8'.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

Hi Ralph,

That's it - I tried and it worked! I made a few subtle changes..mainly lowering the velocity of the 3lets between the main hihat beats, then saved it so that I can call it up again in keyword jam mode, along with fills. "Shuffle" mode must always be selected of course.

Just one thing though - it would be good if the hihats could swing a bit more. See below,

K . . Sn .,. K . . Sn .,.

The dots are hihat 8ths, and then there's an extra quick hihat hit represented by the comma. Would this be a 16th or a 32nd? I'm not sure, nor do I know if this can currently be programmed or not. I know that you plan to have 32nds in a later version.

Anyway thanks for pointing out how to do the general rhythm

JW

[Ralph [RZ]]

You can do the extra hit (which is an eighth between quarters) with shuffle off: check the 'Eighths' box and slide the Eighths probability down.

It doesn't work in shuffle mode because the auto-shuffler will move the eighth to the second 3let position.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

I tried your suggestion but didn't really get far. The extra hit I'm thinking about is when you have hihat triplets, then there's a quick hihat hit, more of a flutter really, a fraction before the third triplet hit...

H.........H..........H...........H..........H.......h.H............H.........H..........H...........H..........H.......h.H............
K...................................Sn...................................K..................................Sn...................................

It's the lower-case 'h', and more of a 16th or32nd between the 8ths.

Also, deselecting Shuffle upsets the fills. Shuffle mode's fills work best with this 12/8 rhythm we're looking at.

[Ralph [RZ]]

Maybe you are talking about an extra hit on the 16th triplet grid before the 2nd note of the 8th triplet?
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

Not sure I understand you. This is getting a little confusing..... I need to have a think about this.

In the pattern I've drawn above, we have 1 measure, = 4 quarters notes. Each quarter has been split into three (triplets), which gives 12 hihat hits per bar.

The extra hit on the hihat - it's hard describe, but you'd know it if you heard it I'm sure. (Perhaps the brush kit has a similar rhythm in the new rhythms it comes with?).

Looking at my diagram, the extra beat is dropped in just before the sixth hihat 12th. It could be a fourth 8th beat in fact (measuring the time interval on my diagram by eye).

[Ralph [RZ]]

If the h is exactly in between 2 H of your diagram then it is an Eighth between quarters. if it is closer to the second H then it is on the 16th triplet grid.

In normal melodic sheet music, a note length (quarter, eight etc.) describes its duration. That is not applicable to most drum sounds as they will sound once hit with their own duration. It is therefore more useful to think of a grid laid on top of a bar and notes being on specific grid lines.

The 8th or 16th triplets have a different grid than the 4th,8th,16th notes of the underlying 4/4 rhythm.

Sorry if this is confusing. A MID file of what you're after would help a lot.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[J.W.]

I've just emailed you a MID file of the rhythm as discussed.

Note that it's in 60/8 time sig and 400bpm (!) - this was so that I could insert the extra hihat notes in the right place easily. The normal 4/4 time sig is the one that counts of course. You may need to adjust your MIDI editor accordingly, although Windows Media Player will play it easily.

I'm not sure exactly where the two extra beats are in terms of 8ths and 16ths etc...however it is a rhythm you'll know and recognise. The question is, how to create it in Jamstix? (If you can in the current version).

My MID file probably won't be too helpful in working out where beats are to exactly, but on hearing it perhaps you might know what the rhythm I am trying to create is..?

Thanks

JW