Rayzoon Technologies LLC

[Ralph [RZ]]

A user in our community, ckurz_7000, has brought up some ideas toward an expanded bar view. If you have any comments or suggestions concerning this idea, please use this thread to collaborate. Here's the idea:

Quoting ckurz_7000:
I suggested that what would really help me would be a way in which I could easily do stuff to a collection of bars at the same time. "Stuff" here could be selecting a range of bars and moving them around. Or expanding a part by inserting a certain number of bars. Easily applying certain style/brain/groove settings to a range of bars. Or maybe splitting one part into two, changing the power level, etc. The list is really quite long of what I could potentially use this expanded song view for.

I envisioned a kind of matrix arrangement of little rectangles, where rectangles belonging to the same part share a common color (see below).



Each rectangle would be labelled by its bar number as well as show me if there is a groove/accent/fill already composed for it. I would like to see all three aspects in one view rather than having to choose different views (as is currently the case with JS3).

I see myself using standard Windows techniques of selecting a collection of rectangles. This would entail using a selection rectangle, Shift/Ctrl-clicking etc.

With the selection I want to be able to cut/copy/paste it/its style/drummer as well as drag it some other place for a new arrangement of bars.

I would like to be able to zoom the view using standard techniques (e.g. the mouse wheel) so that I can see the entire song or just a couple of bars. The details showing in each rectangle would adjust according to the zoom level. Zooming way into a bar would seamlessly switch to the bar editor view. So this big work area empowers me to play with my song and examine it in different ways. It would be a great improvement to my workflow.
_________________
Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
http://www.rayzoon.com

[jimgue_77]

I think this would be a nice addition and help functionally. Good idea. I know some like the new 3-D kit, some don't . Maybe there could be an option to have that space occupied by either the kit or this sort of bar editor.

[ckurz_7000]

I just wanted to say that the sketch above is just that: a crude sketch. Each rectangle would display more information, depending on the zoom level. When I have some time at hand I'm going to expamd on this some more.

-- Chris.

[Kevin_W]

I really like the idea of seeing what parts are groove, fills, etc, without having to switch to the particular mode. It's sort of a Navigator (I realize the proposal is much more than that.)

I also would welcome a cut/paste/insert functionality as suggested.

And maybe other information could also be added, perhaps toggled on/off for each bar, such as the drummer/style/kit/part type, etc. is applied to each bar.

The ability to zoom in/out directly in this view would be cool, but even if it was just a navigation/arrangement display to start with, I think it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks for asking!

[alexis]

[gmon72]

Color coding parts somewhat like how Groove Agent 4 colors patterns is definitely helpful. Making changes to selected blocks at a time would also be welcome.

[Azimuth]

It's not a bad idea Chris but what about adding it as a separate tabbed window similar to song/kit/mixer as now exists? I think that would satisfy the workflow of all involved but am unsure what implementing such an idea would involve from Rayzoon's perspective. I do agree that following the Windows/Apple standards for copy/cut/paste/move would be ideal for quick editing.

[ckurz_7000]

Adding another tabbed view is certainly a possibility. Whether there is a better one, you'd might want to take a close look at all functions within the framework of a so-called funtional matrix. One dimension being the functions in a hierarchical view (top-level to basic) and the different workflows as the second dimension (looking at how different functions are interrelated for certain uses). You will quickly see where the bottlenecks are and what you have to do to unburden the user.

The other aspect is to build as much as possible on user interactions which have already become standard metaphors for certain tasks. For example, selection rectangles, zooming, shift-clicking, double-clicking, cut/copy/paste, etc.

I am happy that Ralph allows for such discussions and hope he takes these comments and concerns seriously.

-- Chris.

[Azimuth]

Hey Chris, You're absolutely correct regarding Ralph and this forum. I can count on one hand the number of developers I'm aware of who support and encourage such user involvement to such a level.
My perspective on other users desired changes is probably skewed somewhat because Jamstix truly just "clicked" with me from the beginning. To me it was very intuitive but I also do have some experience working with drummers.That might be part of the reason why it all just makes sense and seems intuitive.

[Joe_S]

It kinda reminds me of an old Amiga program SuperJam!, notably the Song and part editor. The Part editor is at the top, which shows the bars that make up the part. The song editor is in the lower right, which each part is represented by a block who's length is relative to the number of bars in the part. I always loved this method of editing, as you can copy move parts around. It also allowed for linked and unlinked part clones, where linked parts keeps the settings the same, while unlinking allows them to change independently.

[ckurz_7000]

[Azimuth]

Hi Chris, you don't have to sell me on your ideas. I'm all for any idea which would make every JS user as happy as I am with the software. Yes there are some "quirks" and I feel that they're tolerable, others don't. I personally think the learning curve is average for such a complex software package and having to put some effort into it is a good thing. I'm a PLC programmer by trade and if you can deal with Allen Bradley software, you can deal with anything. I've learned a lot nailing down how JS works and I feel I remember it better because there was some effort involved. I also know that there are aspects of it I've never even used. You want to talk complex, take a look at EW Symphonic Choirs. Anyway, whatever makes others happy is cool with me. This software is a dream come true for me and I've wished for such an instrument for 25+ years.

[keys_reaper]

I would certainly use the suggested grid style editing of multiple bars/parts. Need to include all the parameters tho including time signature for each bar etc.

[minerman_1]

[R Green]

I would like to suggest a bit of user configurability for this new windowif possible.
For example, the option to have the count-in appear on its own row. This would mean less of the subsequent parts being split over two rows on many songs when a two bar intro is involved.
Also, perhaps the 16 blocks could be configurable to 15 or whatever for those that like odd meters?
Another suggestion: for each colour block have a V, C or whatever within it that is just a couple of saturation points different. So it's hardly there when you are concentrating on the data within the block but still evident when your attention zooms out. It may work, it may look awful.
Personally, I do most of my work with the song wizard and the power knob. So the more control we have at song level the better for me. For example, the choice of fills following drummer or groove is per part - while it would be good to have some form of easy control for it on this new page, even better would be for it to be like the song power knob - so it could be set at song level. Even DAW-automatable? The no groove switch also.
While I'm here I'd like to suggest a new part type for the song builder - Y(Cymbal-rage).
Looking forward to JS4 but happy with JS3.