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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: How can I control the velocity bar? +other questions |
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I am trying out the demo version and it looks promising so far. But there are still a lot of things I havent learned after spending several of hours playing with JamStix. What I mostly dont understand is how to control the velocity bar. JamStix automatically adjusts it according to the audio/midi signal it is receiving. At the moment I have been working in Cubase SX2 with some tracks (both midi and audio) allready present. For some strange reason JamStix always goes up and down in the velocity bar for what seems to me no obvious reasons. It generates Power Play when I dont want it to etc. How can control this manually? How do I use JamStix without it jamming with Midi/audio?
I am mostly interested in JamStix for the arrangement possibilities. When you work in arrangement mode you can click on a specific bar to add any small detail, alternating the Kick etc. Can you do the same thing concerning the powermode? I.E. tell JamStix to play in "powermode" for just a single bar?
Instead of having JamStix always running when the sequencer is playing can I record the drumpatterns into a midi track and then letting Cubase read and play that track.I can see that Cubase records the patterns, but its not "playing" them, as jamstix just plays whatever rhytm it has selected at the moment. ( like in GrooveAgent). How come it isnt possible to mute JamStix in the sequencer just like when you are using other VSTinstruments.
And one more thing, there seem to be some improvisation elements that cant be controlled. When I was trying to make a rhytm from scratch it frequently added some accentuations with cymbals/toms although I had unmarked every possibility for JamStix to do that. I also shut off all the sliders in the control window, but still JamStix still added some unwanted elements...
This is a very interesting product and I would be really happy if someone could explain these things to me. RAYZOON deserves a lot of credit for this one  |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: How can I control the velocity bar? +other questions |
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Hi Pusur and welcome to the board!
| pusur wrote: | How can control this manually? How do I use JamStix without it jamming with Midi/audio?
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To use Jamstix in the 'arranger' mode, make sure you leave it on 'Manual Jam' in the jam tab at all times and don't feed it any MIDI notes or audio material. This means do not add the audioM8 plugin anywhere in Cubase and do not record or place any notes into any MIDI track whose output is set to Jamstix. If you do this, you should not see the velocity slider move by itself at all.
| Quote: |
tell JamStix to play in "powermode" for just a single bar?
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Download the X2-5 update http://66.235.201.50/demos/jamstixX2-5demo.zip and you can control velocity and powerplay via MIDI automation using envelopes in Cubase
| Quote: |
Instead of having JamStix always running when the sequencer is playing can I record the drumpatterns into a midi track and then letting Cubase read and play that track.I can see that Cubase records the patterns, but its not "playing" them, as jamstix just plays whatever rhytm it has selected at the moment. ( like in GrooveAgent). How come it isnt possible to mute JamStix in the sequencer just like when you are using other VSTinstruments.
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Record the Jamstix MIDI output in Cubase as you have done but then mute Jamstix by unchecking 'Use Arrangement' in the arrangement tab and then extinguishing the note symbol in the rhythm tab. When you play back Jamstix should now only play the recorded notes in the track.
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And one more thing, there seem to be some improvisation elements that cant be controlled. When I was trying to make a rhytm from scratch it frequently added some accentuations with cymbals/toms although I had unmarked every possibility for JamStix to do that. I also shut off all the sliders in the control window, but still JamStix still added some unwanted elements...
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When 'Use Arrangement' is off and the rhythm tab muted as described above you should not hear any "extras"
Hope this helps and let me know if you need more detail on any of that.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your quick reply!
I am have been chewing on your solutions for several of hours now, and there are still things I cant explain about the whole thing.
I am using the latest demo version and I downloaded the update you mentioned. My main problem is that I really can´t get the velocity under control. I have been experimenting alot now with envelope automation in the project window in Cubase where I am controlling "track FX velocity" (am I doing the envelope thing wrong?). I have been making curves, up and down just to see if it changes anything. And well, it does...sometimes.The times I have gotten the JamStix velocity bar to follow the automation it has always been either full throttle or almost mute. I never got JamStix to just stay in the middle for a time, and I tried lots of different curves and ways. And many times JamStix just didnt take notice at all at the track automation in Cubase!
| Quote: | Record the Jamstix MIDI output in Cubase as you have done but then mute Jamstix by unchecking 'Use Arrangement' in the arrangement tab and then extinguishing the note symbol in the rhythm tab. When you play back Jamstix should now only play the recorded notes in the track.
........When 'Use Arrangement' is off and the rhythm tab muted as described above you should not hear any "extras" |
This didnt work for me, always when I turn off the note symbol in the rhytm tab JamStix just goes totally silent.  |
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:54 am Post subject: |
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And yes, I have only been working in "Manual Jam" and to my knowledge I am not feeding JamStix with any Midi notes or material as none of the tracks I am using has output set to JamStix.
The only channel I have set output to JamStix is the JamStix track as otherwise it can not read the track automation envelope?
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| pusur wrote: | I am using the latest demo version and I downloaded the update you mentioned. My main problem is that I really can´t get the velocity under control. I have been experimenting alot now with envelope automation in the project window in Cubase where I am controlling "track FX velocity" (am I doing the envelope thing wrong?). I have been making curves, up and down just to see if it changes anything. And well, it does...sometimes.The times I have gotten the JamStix velocity bar to follow the automation it has always been either full throttle or almost mute. I never got JamStix to just stay in the middle for a time, and I tried lots of different curves and ways. And many times JamStix just didnt take notice at all at the track automation in Cubase!
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Okay, first off, if you have no automation active, the velocity slider shouldn't move at all. Let's confirm that. If it does then MIDI notes are getting into Jamstix (maybe attached MIDI keyboard?)
Second, you want to use the 'Velocity' envelope as in this screenshot.
http://www.rayzoon.com/cubaseauto.jpg
| Quote: |
This didnt work for me, always when I turn off the note symbol in the rhytm tab JamStix just goes totally silent. |
If it's muted it will only play what it receives in MIDI notes.
I think our confusion comes from the difference in use when playing Jamstix without note input and with input from a recorded MIDI track.
1. Jamstix "Live"
Jamstix plays what is generated in its brain. There are no MIDI notes on the track. Velocity can be manually controlled via automation as shown in the screenshot.
2. Jamstix 'Dumb' Mode
Jamstix plays the notes recorded on its MIDI track (recorded previously from its MIDI-Out). It is here where you want to mute the rhythm tab to avoid "extras". Now velocity will change with the notes so if you want to manually control it, click the icon to the right of the velocity slider, choose 'Use Controller' and select the controller of your choice (i.e. 1 for mod wheel). You can now use an envelope of that controller or your midi keyboard mod wheel to control velocity. By the way, you can use this controller method during "live" use as well.
Hope this helps.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Hello again and thx for your effort in helping me.
Now we are getting somewhere! I was apparantly using a wrong kind of envelope after seeing your screenshot I had no problem of controlling the velocity bar after that. Is it not possible to control the velocity bar so that it generates power-play or do I have to do that in some other way?
But I still cant get JamStix to play back my recorded JamStix miditrack. I have recorded four bars of "visible" midi signal as its the demo version. And when I turn off "use arrangement" and with the g-clave, mute button off, JamStix is totally silent, although it should be receiving and playing the miditrack. So it seems I am not sending the miditrack signal to JamStix...perhaps I got something wrong in my track setup? I have Jamstix set as input and output. Is there something else I should try?
thx again, |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| pusur wrote: | Is it not possible to control the velocity bar so that it generates power-play or do I have to do that in some other way?
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In the place where you see the 'Velocity' envelope, you will see more Jamstix parameters underneath. The last one should say 'Power Play', that's what you want to use for this in addition to the Velocity envelope.
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But I still cant get JamStix to play back my recorded JamStix miditrack. I have recorded four bars of "visible" midi signal as its the demo version. And when I turn off "use arrangement" and with the g-clave, mute button off, JamStix is totally silent, although it should be receiving and playing the miditrack. So it seems I am not sending the miditrack signal to JamStix...perhaps I got something wrong in my track setup? I have Jamstix set as input and output. Is there something else I should try?
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I did the same thing and it works fine for me. Maybe you could send a screenshot of your jam tab at the time of 'no-play' to support@rayzoon.com?
Also, double-check that Jamstix is in manual mode with Play Input checked when playing the MIDI track.
You could also send your Cubase project to support@rayzoon.com and we can try to see what the problem is.
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Ralph Zeuner
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am obviously dealing with a bugg here. Now the velocity bar is not under control any more, even with the automation envelope you showed me. It reacts strange and unpredictible. For example I drew a straight line at the top but still JamStix always started to play with the lowest velocity. But strangely enough after every "dot" it came across in the line (dot being a marker when a curve begins) I heard a loud kind of electric buzz. And always when it had crossed the third dot I had on my line then suddenly the velocity bar jumped to the top. I tried this many many times and it always happened again. There are some really spooky things about JamStix behavior.....
About the "play input" you mentioned earlier... I have tried to avoid this button as it always generated a lot of buzz. Somehow it made JamStix take in a lot of information as you could see in the Barprint that everything just went straight to the top at all times. I dont know why, as I have nothing routed else routed to JamStix.
| Quote: | | In the place where you see the 'Velocity' envelope, you will see more Jamstix parameters underneath. The last one should say 'Power Play', that's what you want to use for this in addition to the Velocity envelope. |
I checked every possible option beneath the Velocity envelop and there were a lot of options, but I did not come across any Power play?
But the really sad thing is that while I was trying working with JamStix Cubase crashed. And when I started the program after that I couldnt open or start a song without getting the error message "Samplerate could not be set. This may be due to the sampleclock being set to external sync." When I restarted the program several times it suddenly dissapeared. But the exact thing happened to me just now, (while working with jamStix) and I get the same error message. And this time it wont go away, and I dont know how to fix this. This results in that I cant get any audio at all 
I would send you some screenshots of all of this if I would have a program to take such a "picture". |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
About the "play input" you mentioned earlier... I have tried to avoid this button as it always generated a lot of buzz. Somehow it made JamStix take in a lot of information as you could see in the Barprint that everything just went straight to the top at all times. I dont know why, as I have nothing routed else routed to JamStix.
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I can think of two things: you may be getting a MIDI feedback with Jamstix being the input and output of the MIDI track. I can't duplicate that here with my Cubase but it may be possible. Try not to have Jamstix set for both at the same time.
The second thing is latency. What is your latency and what ASIO driver are you using?
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I checked every possible option beneath the Velocity envelop and there were a lot of options, but I did not come across any Power play?
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Make sure you are using Jamstix X2-5, we just added that parameter.
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But the really sad thing is that while I was trying working with JamStix Cubase crashed. And when I started the program after that I couldnt open or start a song without getting the error message "Samplerate could not be set. This may be due to the sampleclock being set to external sync." When I restarted the program several times it suddenly dissapeared. But the exact thing happened to me just now, (while working with jamStix) and I get the same error message. And this time it wont go away, and I dont know how to fix this. This results in that I cant get any audio at all
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Sounds like you had a hung Cubase. Check your task manager for a cubasesx.exe entry even though you can't see Cubase on the screen anymore. If you see it there, try to terminate it which may take a few minutes because of resource locks.
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I would send you some screenshots of all of this if I would have a program to take such a "picture". |
Hit the PrtScrn button on your keyboard, then open Paint, use Edit->Paste, save the picture as a JPEG and attach to your E-mail.
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Hello again Ralph!
I have got some good news and some bad news.
I will begin with the good news. I managed to record a midi drumtrack with JamStix and let Cubase play it with out having JamStix jamming at the same time. Perhaps there was some problems with that I had Input and output set to JamStix? Now I only have JamStix set as input and then I swith it around (JamStix as output, and disconnected as input) when I am fully satisfied with a track recording of it.
And now to the bad news, there are few bugs bugging me. For some reason the powerplay parameter under the velocity was there today, and I promise I tripple checked the same thing at the same spot yesterday...? Well I was glad to find it although it is VERY tiresome to get it as you have to click 30 times on this little plus mark to get there. (couldnt you set that higher up in the list, as most people probably use this function more often than all of the other parameters).
The bug I was referring to is related to the power play parameter. I can see that JamStix is reading and behaving according to the velocity track and everything is fine. After the first change in the powerplay automation JamStix suddenly began to play a totally different rhytm. And it didnt matter that I changed to other rhytms after that, it was just stuck on this one. I closed down JamStix and opened it again, loaded some other rhytms set up the velocity track again, everything is fine...untill the I did a change in the powerplay track, and the same rhytm came up again, and wouldnt go away either. They mystical rhtytm was just a few symbals and reminded of a simple quiet Jazz accompaniment. While I was trying to work with JamStix two times I got the error message "Serious problem has occurred: Please try to save your song under another name and then restart Cubasesx.exe".
You said earlier about a different error message I sometimes received that it sounded like a Cubase hung up, but this is a new kind, and either of these faults have never happened to me before under other cirumstances....
And just to be sure that there was something wrong with the powerplay track, I did the procedure all over again, set all things up, velocity track and loaded a rhytm. Everything worked just fine. Untill the moment I made a change in the power play track, when suddenly (instead of playing the unasked for, jazzrhytm) JamStix just went totally silent for no reason and nothing could be done. 20 seconds later I got the error message again, and Cubase had to shut down.
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:37 am Post subject: |
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We're on it...
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:38 am Post subject: |
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You asked about what soundcard I was using etc.
I am using audiophile 2496 (I hope I remembered the figures right), and I am not experiencing any latency at all.
Other technical specifications:
Win XP professional (SP2)
3.0 ghz
1.5 ram memory |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Pursur, could you send the Cubase file that produces the error to support@rayzoon.com?
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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pusur
Junior Jammer
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| ok, I have sent you the Cubase .cpr file along with a creenshot. |
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Ralph [RZ]
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| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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H, Pursur, this is what I noticed checking out your demo CPR:
When the 'Gain Output#1' parameter is on the screen in addition to the PowerPlay parameter, drawing on the PowerPlay track makes the Gain parameter drop down. I don't why Cubase does that but it doesn't occur in Sonar. I recommend you only have the parameters open that you want to control. Here's how and this should also fix your "long list" frustration. You can take any existing parameter track and change its properties to 'PowerPlay'.
With just the parameters I needed to control (velocity, powerplay) visible, I had no problems at all with your project, drawing PP envelopes.
Let me know if this helps
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Ralph Zeuner
Rayzoon Technologies LLC
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